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Date:         Wed, 21 Sep 94 20:25:32 PDT
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Steve Johnson <sjohnson@pcocd2.intel.com>
Subject:      Re: Car Talk

> I'm not asserting people were dumb to buy 1976 Type IIs. I'm > saying that from my experience with various 70s vintage VWs > I can understand why the carguys dump on them. > > If I could have afforded a new VW van in 1976, I probably would > have bought one. And, after having the '91 I have now, I'm not > so emotionally attached to machinery that I'd be reluctant to > state the '76 engine was a dog.

It may be a dog compared to other cars and vans, but for alot of people the trade-off is worth it. Fuel economy, easier to fix. Lots of inter- changable parts including engines and transmissions. Yes in a nut shell the 72' - 74's were a bit flawed in the design but I think they put in enough time and miles that gave them a reasonable useful life. And there are lot's of owners out there that can take out the old carbs and make the system much better.

> > These are cars not RV's or buses by any stretch.

> But, they are VWs. And, my point was that the carguys weren't > so bigoted that they wouldn't say anything positive about a > VW.

Maybe I should have clarified in my original post that I was refering to the air-cooled set and Vanagons. I admit that this is lame to say now but I still think the same applies. They (Tom and Ray) are not very kind to a certain set of VWs which is contradictory to the facts. It's like the unfortunate but false reputation that VW has for having fires. Any car that is over 20 years old that does not have it's fuel lines changed is going to be dangerous to drive. It's just that VW's are/were more noticable because there were a lot more of them around. That doesn't make the fire are common in VWs a fact. It just shows lack of care for a car that is seen on the road more. And let's face it, the typical owner of a VW was not rich and so scrimped on everything including fuel lines. That's not the car's fault. That's the owners fault.

I'm just trying to say that they do alot of undue blaming on the wrong thing. And for two guys that are listened to all over the country, it really is kind of an injustice. They are trusted and that trust is easily abused. Not on purpose necessarily but it does happen.

> Bias? Of course I'm biased. We're talking cars here and we > prefer and acquire what we do based on bias & emotion and some even > use some science. But, one that eschews the science isn't necessarily > a moron.

Yes, and don't you think the people who bought these VWs had preferances too? That's why they bought their VWs in the first place. It had some- thing they wanted besides four wheels, seats and steering wheel. So if Tom and Ray respect that, then they should not be spewing out mis- information about the vehicle just because they don't happen to approve of it.

> > > Sounds like you don't like to get your hands greasy either. > > Why, because I refer to NEW cars above? No, I enjoy time > wiggling around on my back if it's when I'm in the mood. > But, it's true at 44 I find it less easy and consequently > less attractive to play motorhead on demand. I also have > become more interested in using tools like cars and campers > and less in keeping them working. Faced with the choice of spen- > ding the bulk of daylight hours on a weekend day doing my brakes > or paying Les Schwab $145 to do them and playing in the garden.. > ........no contest.

MMMMM...me to.... not the garden part, just the part about I'm really not crazy about working on the car as much as I used to. Mostly because I'm working and have to take care of 2 houses. :(

> Close the door? I don't understand. I own a VW. I've owned > VWs since 1969. I just recognize that they're just machinery, > tools. Some are/were neat & unique and some were crap.

I think specifics would have to be indicated here in order for me to debate any meaningful response. But you can say what you said about any brand of car.

> For example, I think the '71 was a pretty good year; old style > serviceable bug engine, & disc brakes. But, the '72 had a > bummer, undependable engine with the van, I think, a bunch > heavier. Some years I wouldn't buy used today and some I would.

I think you could get some argument from people on this list on this. The engines were actually very strong and dependable compared to the older Type I engine.

> Not many....that's why I also own one. But, again, I'm not > so sure I would if there had been some competition internal > to the US. Our campers aren't perfect. I think they're way > too noisy inside; the A/C ducting is assinine as they shoulda > used the ducting that goes to the dash;^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You sure got that right.

no graywater sump. > But, yes, considering the lack of competition in the near-full- > service-camper, car-size, pop-top camper market, it's the best > on the road.

My sentiment exactly.

What were we arguing about? ;)

Steven

sjohnson@pcocd2.intel.com


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