Date:         Sun, 23 Oct 1994 10:01:17 -0700 (PDT)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Wes Neuenschwander <wesn@eskimo.com>
Subject:      Re: To Buy or Not to Buy?

On Sun, 23 Oct 1994, Jon Van Wyk wrote:
> 
> I looked at a '82 Westy at a VW dealership yesterday.  The exterior is
> rust-free with a few minor dents in the metal.  The interior seems nice for
> a camper of this vintage: clean; no mold; nice canvas; decent seat & bed
> fabric; seats, top & bed work; etc.  They're asking $5688 for it (which
> seems a bit high, tho' they claim it's down from $7999, ha!).
> 
> More details:
> 168k miles
>  30k on a rebuild
> New tires of dubious manufacture in front and
> fair tires of similar manufacture in rear
> rear hitch
> front towing brackets
> 
> Here are the concerns:
> 1) Seems like a lot of miles and this could be trouble.  What major
> gotcha's could be lurking?

Though about average for the vintage, it's still a long haul.  13 years and 
168K is bound to take its toll.  Big question is what KIND of miles and 
what kind of CARE.  Though professional detailing can cover a multitude 
of sins, I still like to look for signs of TLC:  lack of dings (inside 
and out), little things, such as interior lights, cabinets latches, fresh 
water fill hatch, heater fan switch, etc. still working.  Some of these 
will have undoubtably failed over 13 years - If they've been repaired or 
replaced, that's a sign of CARE!  The trailer hitch would make me 
nervous.  I had an '82 and (like all vanagons) it had plenty to haul 
without a trailer.  Ditto for the tow bar - I don't remember for sure, 
but I think the dealer recommendation was to lift and tow or you could 
damage the tranny.  

> 
> 2) They're gonna compression check the engine.  Anything else I should check?
> 
> 3) The fact that it's towed stuff.  Any redflags there?
> 
> 4) The fact that it's been towed.  I hear that's tuff on the trans.  Cause
> for concern?
> 
> 5) I've not tested the camping gear (aside from the top).  Prior owner said
> it all worked.  Should I verify?  Tips?

What kind of camper is it?  I'm assuming it's a Westy, but very few were 
sold in the Pacific Northwest back then.  The regional distributor owned 
their own conversion company and were blocking import and sales of the 
Westy's.  They (ACI/Riviera Motors) did a good job, but the design and 
features differed somewhat from the Westy.  One major caveat:  ACI is no 
longer in business and parts can be difficult/impossible to find.  Westy 
parts are much more standard and are available through any VW dealer 
(though I suppose those that are specially for older models may not be).  

Check everything!!  Fill water tank, check pump.  Check sink drain (may leak 
into pantry).  Check for fresh water tank leaks (look at floor in 
adjacent closet;  let sit overnight and look for water underneath 
vehicle).   

Check the fridge for sure - on all three power sources (if it's a three 
way).  A new fridge will cost you several hundred $$.  Evaluation is 
somewhat subjective, but on 120V or propane (12V is less effective) it 
should form a thin layer of ice on the fins within a couple of hours.  

Examine the pop-top carefully for sun-rot, working screens/windows, etc. 

You're paying for a camper - make sure you get one.  Fixing these things 
can be difficult and shockingly expensive.  Try to get a committment from 
the dealer that "everything works".  Immediately, take it camping.  I've 
had pretty good luck getting reputable dealers to honor verbal agreements 
in these cases, and with a 13 year old vehicle it's probably as good as 
you're going to get.  

> 6) Brakes are mushy.  Is this typical?

They may require more force than a typical passenger car, and maybe a tad 
more springy, but definitely shouldn't be mushy.  

> 
> 7) Steering has a bit of play and the "sway factor" seemed high.  Could
> this be due to the passenger car tire it's shod with?

Subjective, but my '82 was actually a pretty tight handling rig.  Less 
sway, even at 90K than my '91 had new.  There is a spec for steering play 
- have the dealer measure it and verify that it confirms (and check it 
against the Bently manual yourself).  Definitely could be tires or even 
inflation pressure.  Have the dealer check out the steering and 
suspension, and certify that it's OK.  

> 
> 8) What's a good price?

Haven't really followed prices but we traded our '82 (one of the 
ACI/Riviera Motors conversion campers, w/o pop-top> for $3,500 in '91.  
At the time we felt we could probably get $4,000 - $4,500 for it.  It was 
in excellent condition (I'm the kind of guy who replaces all the knobs 
and fixes all the little things) with 90K on it.  The pop-top and full 
Westy package would have added some... BUT still SEEMS high.  Still it 
depends, not only on the condition of the car, but who you're getting it 
from.  Who's the dealer?  Some of the premium might be for warranty - 
written, verbal or just good will.  Don't laugh, there actually are 
dealers who deal in good faith.  A couple of years ago we bought an '82 
Honda Accord from a dealer, for a pretty reasonable price - technically 
"as is".  When, over the course of the next few weeks, we discovered that 
the brakes were bad and the clutch was slipping, they fixed it - no 
charge, no arguments!  I've had good luck with my '91 at Carter VW.  

> Thanks in advance.
> 
> Jon
> 
> ---------
> Jon  \/an   Seattle, WA
>     \/\/yk  (jvanwyk@halcyon.com)
> 


--------------------------------------------
Wes Neuenschwander
Seattle, WA

(wesn@eskimo.com)