Date:         Wed, 1 Feb 1995 12:59:10 -0800 (PST)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Steve Johnson <sjohnson@pcocd2.intel.com>
Subject:      Re: WESTFALIA ADVICE NEEDED! (Long) (Bus Summary Included)

So Kramer, James says:
> 3)  What are the biggest pros and cons of owning a Westfalia?  How far and 
> fast can you reasonably travel on the 4 cylinder engine, and what is the 
> "best" engine to look for?  I've been told hydraulic lifters are a real 
> blessing - when did they first appear?
> 

This is a post by Dan Eldred that I've kept and have added my own inputs/
rebuttels/comments marked 'sj>'.  It is a very good summary of the buses
and their +'s and -'s.

**********************************************************************
Here's an updated version of my VW Van post.  No major changes, just
a few corrections:
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I occasionally get requests for recommendations for VW vans and so I
have collected the following summary.  Please email me if you see any
inaccuracies or think something should be added.

Thanks to Ben Mesander, Fred the Ranger, and Nick Haas for
corrections/ additions.

                Recommendations for VW Vans

        Dan Eldred  eldred@rrunner.jpl.nasa.gov

                        March, 1994


1.  Early Type II's.  These are collector items and hence draw a
hefty sum in good condition.  Most people probably would not want one
as a daily commuter, as they used a swing axle suspension (i.e. they
tip over easily) and had a 1500 cc engine which was very prone to
exhaust valve failure and was woefully underpowered.  According to
Fred the Ranger, '64 -'66 had a 1500 engine and '67 had a 1600;  I
seem to recall that the earlier ones had a 1300 engine.  Anyone from
California over age 35 remembers the scores of early VW vans pulled
off the side of the road on the grade up to Mammoth ski area.  On the
other hand, if you enjoy scouring swap meets for parts and watching
the scenery while you crawl up a hill, maybe this is the car for you.
The front windshields (2 of them)  hinged upward in the Safari
version.  I think some came with a pull cord  to start the engine in
case the battery died.  Apparently the oldest versions ('50-'54) had
a kick-start crank like a Model-T Ford, in addition to the starter
motor.  I also believe that the very early ones didn't have a gas
gauge--you waited until the car sputtered and then pulled a lever to
use  the reserve tank.  For off-roading, they are great as the swing
axle  suspension is very rugged and the clearance is fantastic on
account of the  reduction gears (the rear axle is above centerline).

************************CORRECTIONS:*********************************

Here are some corrections to the Van/Bus?Vanagon Summary...

Engines:

1950 - late 1953    25 hp 

1954 to December 1958 36 hp

January 1959 to December 1959 - "Bastardized" 36 hp "high torque" engine
used only one year, block was cross between 40hp and 36 hp blocks. 
Impossible to get parts (I have a new piston/cylinder if anyone is
interested)

Jan 1959 - Oct 1964 40 hp/1200 cc engine - Fresh air heating Dec. 1962

October 1967 through the end of production of the Split Window Type IIs
1500 cc engine.

At no time was the 1300cc engine available, at least in the US market
for the Type II. The single port 1600cc was possibly available
in Europe as an option, but did not manifest itself in the US until
the "bay window" Type IIs for the 1968 model year.

VW never offered a "pull-cord" starting device in ANY of its aircooled
models. Up until 1958's came with the "dog" crank pulley bolt as
well as the access on the rear pan for the crank.

Gas gauges appeared in Type IIs in late 1961. Prior to that there was
a knob on the platform under the forward edge of the seat opposite
the heater control for the reserve tank. Prior to 1961, there was
also a knob on the opposite side for the hand choke.

***********************************************************************

2.  '68-'70 Type II's.  These were pretty good, the major problems
being lack of power (1600 single port engine) and lousy brakes (4
wheel drums, no power assist).  The engine could be switched to a
dual port engine easily, and I would recommend it for more power.
Engine parts are very inexpensive and abundant, as they are identical
to those of the Bug. You can buy a brand new engine made in Brazil
for less than $1000. The rear suspension is independent using 4 CV
joints, and is very good, though you have to watch the boots closely
for tears (true in general). Handling in cross winds is, well,
exciting, and the engine noise is very loud.  Removal of the engine
in these cars is the easiest of any car ever made.  These cars will
be nearly 25 years old shortly, so other parts  are getting harder
and more expensive to come by (but they are abundant in the
junkyards).  When buying one, be sure to get one which is rust free--
search in all four wheel wells, under the side panels, under the
front floor mats, and under the battery compartment behind the right
rear tire. The steering gear tends to develop play and then leaks out
the oil, so  look for this also.  You will probably want to get more
power from the  engine by either enlarginging it (bore and/or stroke)
and/or increasing  compression somewhat (don't exceed about 8.3:1),
but if you do so it  probably won't last more than about 80,000 miles
before you have to pull  it for something or another.  You will see
many on the road with oil  coolers, but I don't think they're
necessary and they add a potential  failure spot.  Don't expect to
get much heat from the heater, and note  that the heater boxes have a
different linkage than those from a Bug  (though later, aftermarket
ones will fit both Bugs and Busses).  Make  sure the sliding door
works because if it doesn't you'll spend forever  trying to get it to
work right.

sj> Regarding engine power enhancement.  This step is only for those 
sj> of you who have to have more power.  Personally, I don't.  I 
sj> prefer to keep the system stock.  It's cheaper that way and 
sj> easier to maintain.  Just stay in the slower lane and pass when 
sj> you can. If I wanted more power, I would have bought something else.
sj> No flame intended.  Just my point of view.

3.  '71 Type II's.  This is the best year for the bus with the old
upright (Bug) engine.  The stock engine is dual port, for nearly
marginal power (you will probably still want to get more from it),
and you also get front disk brakes along with power assist, though
the disk brake pads did tend to wear out fairly rapidly.  The
distributer, though complicated (for smog control), seems to have a
very good combination of centrifugal and vacuum advance (with vacuum
retard at idle, which is harmless enough).  I highly recommend
replacing the mechanical points with one of the aftermarket
breakerless ignition systems, or, alternatively, adapting a
distributer with a Hall effect sensor from a Vanagon (but I haven't
looked at the advance curves of these).  The 34-pict-3 carburettor
tended to have a flat spot during acceleration.  The '68-'71's are
very well made and they are very simple.  I had a '71 from '76
through '89, and finally sold it at 180,000 miles (it was dying from
rust).
 
4.  '72-'74 Type II's.  The body style changed subtly with the
introduction of the 411 engine.  The tail lights got bigger and
square, and the rear apron behind the engine was welded in place
instead of being bolted in place (which makes engine removal far more
difficult--you have to jack up the car to clear the engine).  The
front disk brakes were redesigned so that they lasted longer.  Also
the steering box changed, so I assume they were less prone to wear.
Access to the engine was improved somewhat by adding an access hatch
in the car.  The '72's had the same bumpers as the earlier ones but
sometime later the bumpers changed from rounded cross section to a
more square cross section.  Otherwise the sheet metal is pretty
similar to the earlier Busses.  The ride is the same as earlier
Busses (i.e. white knuckles in a cross wind), but the interior noise
is much reduced.  The seats got head rests, but the interior quality
got a bit worse, with thinner material used.  The sliding door got a
different latch, which is easier to use than before.  The engine, on
the other hand,  is radically different.  I feel it is a much
stronger engine, and it came in 1700 ('72-'73), 1800 ('74-'75), and
2000 ('76-'79) cc displacements so it provided enough power to move
the Bus in its stock configuration (though barely).  It has other
advantages over the old upright engine as well, including:  stretchy
head studs (most rebuild kits for upright engines use these now as
well), a real oil filter, better pushrod tubes that are less prone to
leakage and can be replaced without engine disassembly (in the
upright engine, you had to use aftermarket telescoping tubes), and
somewhat better heater boxes (though heat is still inadequate for
winter). On the down side, the '72-'74's used a dual Solex carburetor
arrangement which was difficult to get and keep adjusted properly,
and the engines were very prone to burning exhaust valves until
finally all Bus engines were equipped with sodium cooled valves
(which can be retrofitted).  If you buy a high mileage Bus of this
era, it probably has been retrofitted. Also doing engine work on
these engines is at least three times as expensive as on an upright
engine (I kid you not), and this is a major disadvantage.
 
5.  '75-'77.5 Type II's.  As above, but electronic fuel injection was
substituted for the twin Solexes.  I don't have any first hand
knowledge, but I have heard many tales of people spending many
hundreds of dollars trying to get the fuel injection to work right
(usually by ultimately replacing every part until the problem
disappears).  Part of the problem is that the mass air meter used a
resistive contact as an angle sensor,  and this would wear out over
time.  At least the fuel pump is the same  as that used in fuel
injected Bugs, so they are readily available.   In '76 the engine
grew to 2.0 liters, finally offering a reasonable amount of power to
a VW bus.
 
6.  '77.5-'79 Type II's.  As above, but hydraulic lifters were added.
This eliminates the pain-in-the-ass job of occasionally adjusting the
valves, which is more difficult in the 411 engine than in the upright
engine.  You also have less oil leaking out since the valve covers
stay put.  Also the hydraulic lifters can be replaced fairly easily
with the engine still in the car (which is a good thing since they
occasionally go bad--figure on about 100,000 miles for them,
depending on how clean you keep the oil). By the way, you can
retrofit older 411 engines with the hydraulic lifters as well, but
you should replace the camshaft at the same time or the valve timing
won't be quite right.  I believe that many of the bugs in the fuel
injection were worked out during this time period.  The '79 busses
also got sliding passenger windows too.  About time!
 
7.  '80-'83 Vanagon.  The engine is based on the 2 liter Type II
engine but uses slightly different heads.  I have had a '80 since
'88, and it  now has 170,000 miles on the original engine.  The fuel
injection seems  to be more reliable, based on anecdotal evidence and
my experience.  Heat  is still inadequate, but the power is sort of
ok.  The biggest changes are in the body.  You get a lot more
interior room, even though the outside didn't seem to grow.  The
windshield is much bigger for a better view.   The car finally
handles acceptably in a cross-wind, thanks to the wishbone  front
suspension which replaced the trailing arm suspension of the  earlier
Busses.  And it is much quieter, though wind and road noise  make it
still much noisier than a typical passenger car.  On the down  side,
interior quality seems to be going downhill, and lots of little
plasticy things tend to break.  There are also lots of little quirky
irritations, such as having the brake fluid resevoir on top of the
instrument console so you spill the fluid all over the instruments
when you try to refill it, or having to open the hinged license plate
to add oil (and always getting your hands dirty in the process).  The
air circulation system is terribly and unnecessarily complicated for
the simple functions it performs, and I was very disappointed to find
that the electric fan only circulated fresh air and that the heated
air was still coupled to the engine fan (and that the heat was still
inadequate in the winter).  The power from the 2.0 liter engine is
the same as in the later Busses but the Vanagon is bigger, less
aerodynamic, and heavier, so the acceleration and mileage is worse
(expect about 19-20 on the highway).  Some of these Vanagons were
equipped with a Rabbit-type diesel engine shoehorned into the engine
compartment. The thing must be  so underpowered it couldn't get out
of it's own way.  Another thing I've been told to avoid is the
automatic transmission.  Aside from reducing power at the wheels, it
seems to be quite unreliable, expensive to fix,  and no one can fix
it besides.  All in all, the Vanagon is a good van,  but it lacks the
simplicity, character and charm of the older style Busses,  and is
very expensive to repair.  One more tidbit--the camper version, while
very nicely equipped, won't fit in parking garages.  This applies to
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
sj> This is not true.  I've navigated through several parking garages
sj> albeit with white knuckles occasionally with no mishaps.  It also
sj> fits easily into my own home garage as well.  You should measure 
sj> the total height of your van and your garage opening height to 
sj> be sure of the fit.

the  Type II vans as well.

 
8.  '84-'91 Vanagon.  The engine was switched to the "Wasserboxer" or
water-cooled pancake engine.  The first several years of this engine
were extremely trouble prone, with overheating, water pump failures,
and coolant leaks (from the head gaskets) occurring frequently.  I
have also heard that the cylinder heads tend to crack, and that VW
has been doing repairs for free under a "secret warranty" program.
Keep in mind that the radiator is separated from the engine by about
15 feet of car, to appreciate how cooling problems might come about.
It was also a limited production engine, unique to the Vanagon.  In
practical terms, this means that the engine is astronomically
expensive to work on (mark my words).  One poster claimed that it
cost $800 just to purchase the radiator hoses, and that a set of
gaskets cost $250!!!  If you do get a waterboxer, make sure to use
only phosphate free antifreeze.  Otherwise the car seems to be pretty
good, and it has more power than the air cooled version (though it
doesn't get any better mileage).  The interior quality and layout
seems to have gotten much better, and in the camper version is
unbeatable.

sj> At this current time the vanagon mailing wisdom has determined
sj> that in order to avoid the aforementioned cooling system problems,
sj> you should change the coolant (or have it changed) yearly and
sj> be sure to bleed the system via a bleeder bolt in the front so 
sj> that the system is completely purged of air.  The air in the 
sj> system causes excess heating and then manifest into hot spots.
sj> thereby causing the weaker components of the system to fail and
sj> leak.  One of the weak links is the head gaskets.
 

sj> For further information on type II VWs you can subscribe to the
sj> vanagon mailing list and participate in the discussion or just
sj> 'lurk' for a while.  This should help you in your decision on
sj> which year bus/camper/transporter/kombi is best for you.
sj>
sj> Following is the info. on how to subscribe/post/unsubscribe to
sj> the vanagon mailing list:
sj>
sj> to subscribe
sj> mail to listserv@lenti.med.umn.edu
sj> with one line saying
sj> subscribe vanagon firstname lastname
sj> 
sj> to unsubscribe
sj> mail to listserv@lenti.med.umn.edu
sj> with one line saying
sj> unsubscribe vanagon
sj> 
sj> to post (now why would you want to do a thing like that?)
sj> mail to vanagon@lenti.med.umn.edu
sj> 
sj> to pester the list owner
sj> mail to gsker@lenti.med.umn.edu


       - Dan Eldred              eldred@rrunner.jpl.nasa.gov
 
 
Steven
----------------------
Steven Johnson
sjohnson@pcocd2.intel.com
'91 VW Camper GL, '86 Nissan Sentra
Previously owned: '68 bug, '70 squareback, '74 Camper