Date:         Thu, 20 Apr 1995 11:58:16 -0700 (PDT)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         "Tobin T. Copley" <tobin@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca>
Subject:      Re: New starter?+wierd noise (help!)

On Thu, 20 Apr 1995, Eugene C. Palmer wrote:

> > I know that sometimes, if your van won't start, (as in nothing at all
> >happens when you turn the key) you can bang on the
> >starter and solenoid a bit, and get it to start. This usually happens
> >when parked on hills. My question is, since this is happening, is a new
> >starter in order?  [snip]
> >
> You could try crossing the selenoid and B+ terminals with a screwdriver to
> be sure it isn't some other gremlin.  The parked on hills thing makes me
> think there is something loose, either the engine mounts, trans mounts, or
> starter bolts themselves.

Hmmmm...   I've had an irritating and intermittent starting problem in my 
76 Westy for the last while.  Sounds the same as what Richard describes: 
turn key, idiot lights at dask ok, but NOTHING (no click, even) from 
starter.  The irritating thing was this happened in Quebec after 
starting(?) the car that morning in -30 C temps in New Brunswick--so we 
ended up push-starting the car alllll the way home (to Vancouver).  Ha!  
Not really a problem (car still _ran_ just hunky-dory), but jeez...

Ok, so I went through St. Muir's diagnostic procedures (Volkswagen won't 
start), and figured the solenoid had had the biscuit.  Shorting from live 
battery terminal to ignition terminal did nothing at all.  Back home in 
Vancouver, bapping the solenoid with a hammer got the starter working 
again.... for a while.  Last I checked, it's starting normally, but I'm 
carrying a tow rope around just in case.

I thinking I'll just replace the solenoid.
But listen to this....

POSSIBLE RELATED SYMPTOM?

On the way back, starting around the Mississippi, I noticed a humming, 
mid-frequency vibration noise from the rear of the car.  Sorta like one 
of those harmonic frequency things, couldn't isolate which side of the 
car it came from.  At first only occured at highway speeds (45-55 mph).

As the trip continued, noise got gradually louder, to the point thathe 
noise developed dropped too: now it's noticeable at city speeds (30 mph), 
and occaisionally, there is a grinding, squeaking noise (oouuch!!!) at 
very slow speed (< 10 mph).

When I lay into the throttle a bit, the noise almost disappears.  Steady 
speed or backing on the engine makes it very noticeable.  Putting the 
clutch in does not make it go away or change the sound substantially. 

And get this.  Imagine a winding highway, you know, not hammering thru 
the corners, but feeling the pull on the steering wheel, and the body 
rolls very slightly.  The sound gets LOUDER turning leftish, and GOES 
AWAY turning rightish, providing I'm not backing off the accelerator.

Oh, and that grinding squeak I heard (see above) came distinctly from the 
left rear wheel.  Wheel bearing, right?  So I replaced bot bearings in 
that wheel, checked the left side CVs, replaced the inside CV with an old 
serviceable one I had lying around, felt very pleased with myself, drove 
the bus and the noise was still there!  Aargh!

I figure it has to be wheel bearings, CVs, or something in the tranny 
(yikes!), but before I go tearing into in a big way, I thought I'd see if 
anyone had experienced anything similar or had any ideas.

Ideas?  Huh?  Could both the starting prob and this humming, vibrating 
harmonic kinda noise be related?  Eugene mentioned loose engine mounts, 
tranny bolts, etc. could cause probs; might the noise be figuring into 
this somehow?  I did a cursory check, and nothing I checked seemed 
obviously loose, but I'm not really familiar with this kind of engine 
stuff, so I probably missed a bunch of nuts/bolts.  And geez, the FI crap 
gets in the way of everything!  Getting at that top starter bolt from the 
engine compartment is murder!  

Oh, BTW, we may be able to keep the camper, at least for the summer, 
depends partly on the outcome of this problem...  Keep yer fingers 
crossed...

TIA!

Tobin 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tobin T. Copley                  Currently               =============
(604) 689-2660                    Occupationally        /_| |__||__| :| putta
tobin@freenet.vancouver.bc.ca      Challenged!         O|             | putta
                                                        '-()-------()-'
Circum-continental USA, Mexico, Canada 15,000 miles... '76 VW Camper! (Mango)