Date:         Thu, 28 Sep 1995 09:20:36 CST6CDT
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         "Dan Houg" <fairwind@northernnet.com>
Subject:      Phosphate free anti-freeze 

As some may recall, i'd posted a query on Alpine anti-freeze.  I've
done some tracking around and here are the results:

Alpine Antifreeze- 
the jugs says 'distributed by Paulsboro Packaging' so i called them, 
they informed me they have divested themselves of this product and 
told me to call Prestone Products @ 203/830-7800.  I spoke with 
Andrea in customer service and she said that Alpine ABSOLUTELY 
CONTAINED PHOSPATES even tho it isn't listed on the jug.  she also 
said the regular yellow jug of Prestone contained phosphates and the 
jug does list 'corrosion inhibitors.'

I asked her for suggestions on a phosphate free formula...
she said that Prestone Longlife 4/60 (in the grey jug) is a phosphate 
free formulation.  one can obtain this at typical KMart and WalMart 
outlets or call 1-800-890-2075 to find a Longlife 4/60 retailer 
closest to you.

She is faxing me some articles on how phosphate, borates, and 
silicates affect corrosion and essentially she said all studies 
indicate that there is no significant acceleration of corrosion due 
to these inhibitors.  She felt that manufacturers specified phosphate 
free for 2 reasons:
   1.   She said they charge extremely high prices for the 
formulation and it carries a high profit.
    2.  It is another excuse for a manufacturer to disallow a 
warranty claim if they detect the presence of a non-phosphate free 
anti-freeze (usually by proprietary colors ie blue etc)

HOWEVER- she allow said that if an engine IS under warranty yet, to 
absolutely use a phosphate free product so as to not jepordize the 
warranty.

(THE FAXES JUST CAME IN!!!)

the transmission quality of these were poor but she is also sending 
me hard-copy.  here's what they consist of :

Motor Oct 1982- The Great Debate.  article on VW recs on phosphate 
free, silicates, borates.  just about unreadable quality but the 
content look great!  Dad gets Motor magazine and it is truly a first 
class industry publication.  I'll post info when i get a hard copy.

Popular Mechanics Car Clinic column from Feb 19??

Prestone data sheet

Longlife 4/60 data sheet.  (it will be amber colored!)  meets specs:
ASTM D 3306
SAE J 1034
General Services
Administration CID A-A-870A

(are any of these a VW spec?)

your specific questions may be directed to 
Prestone @ 800-890-2075  or
Andrea @ 800-862-7737 (Prestone customer relations)

-dan (returning my 3 jugs of Alpine today and getting Longlife 4/60)