Vanagon EuroVan
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Date:         Sun, 3 Mar 1996 22:40:49 -0500 (EST)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         William Alan Killian <killian@qnet.com>
Subject:      Re: I heard a 'nasty' rumor!

> >VW's thinking of putting a different engine in the Eurovan? The Eurovan > >is the new Vanagon. > > Not even close!

It most certainly is. I think the T3 style is going still in South Africa but only there.

> Just like the Golf is effectively the new Beetle. > >The Jetta is the new Super Beetle. > > Again, nope.

You say so. Beetle "WAS" the main sedan in the small car category. Super was a way to make it carry a bit more.(suspension change to give more trunk room). And now lets see. The Golf "IS" the main sedan (hatchback rather) in the small car category and the Jetta is a way to make it carry a bit more (adding a trunk).

Okay the old air cooled stuff had a different personality. But please rejoin reality. Air cooled is obsolete based on many newer regulations. I miss the old beetle as well, but it ain't coming back. Rear engine/rear drive is better than front engine/rear drive in many respects. But front engine/front drive is the current state of the art for most applications. Thats life.

> >Why would VW bring back an obsolete vehicle? > > I don't think the Vanagon's obsolete by any standards. It's just VW is > tring to compete, very poorly, with the Big three Mini van's. Front wheel > drives the big thing. Even in Europe. But with VW's base prices about 5K > more than the others why would anyone buy a VW. I can buy a caravan for > about 18K, with big HP V6 and lots of extra's. I'm just to loyal to VW to > buy into the Caravan market. New VW's look to much like every other car on > the road. Besides, the Beetle design was old in the 1950's but they kept > on making them, and still do in Mexico and Brazil, until 1979. Just because > somethings old doesn't mean you throw it away. The Concept 1 is a 'rebirth' > of the beetle with refinements. The Vanagon was the last,best, refinement > of the original Microbus. Eurovans are just tryin' to keep up with the > Jone's.

The Eurovan does not compete with mini-vans any more than the Vanagon did. These are both truck style approximately full sized vans. Chrysler mini-van is nice for a station wagon. Not a van. Its called 'mini' for a reason. Eurovan is not in that classification. The Sharan was not created to reaplce the T4/Eurovan. It was created to compete with the Mini-vans. Compare the EV/T4 with Ram Vans or Econoline vans. The MV is more like the Conversion vans than any mini-van anything.

> I'm also told that back in '83 VW was almost ready to installed a modified > In-line 4 into the Vanagon,this would have been the smartest thing they > could have done, but somehow ended up with the patents and rights the Scats > watercooled flat-4 design. The person that told me this said that the new > Vanagon would be a US only Car, like the concept 1. Thanks again. That > was my 2 cents. Take care.

Ain't likely gonna be a new vanagon in the US. It would be a really dumb thing to do - unless they import it from South Africa they'd have to spend millions to recreate an obsolete van that wasn't selling very well anymore. You're as likely to see the Mexican vans imported probably.

Like it or not thats the way the world is going. T4 is a very successful vehicle in Europe (based on info I've read - not been there). It replaces the T3 that was also very successful but hit its limits. Its done. Over. Run out of steam. No longer practical. Too expensive. Some folks talk about the price problem. VWs have a disadvantage in being imported from Europe. T4 is better than any other van/truck in its class. T4 is better in most regards than the T3. The T3 is better than the T2 as well. I admit I want an old T1 split windshield but in pure technical engineering it is not as good as the later generations. Bummer maybe but thats just the way it is.

Okay in some situations the older vans have niches they fill better than newer ones. The older T1's have engine cost advantages over the T2 with the type 4 engine. But the type 4 engine is "better" just not cost effective based on the sheer number of type 1 engines out there. If they were equally common you can bet everyone would be swapping in the type 4 engine into older cars.

I've heard T1 in stock mode is better at bouncing along off road than later vans (non-syncro that is) but that was probably due to being designed when roads weren't as good and that was more important. If that is your niche cool. But realize it is a niche. Don't expect VW to be able to turn back the clock and make the world different again.

Sorry if some don't agree.

bill and diane killian zen and the art of ferrets


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