Date:         Fri, 26 Apr 1996 17:34:15 -0400 (EDT)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Derek Drew <drew@interport.net>
Subject:      Re: Lifting Der Syncro

Funny you should write to me today. Just this morning, I spent about half an
hour reading through our prior communications to try to come up with a
resonse for you. I was planning to snail mail a response since I felt it
would be lengthy if I quoted our prior communications a lot and your said
your employer was sensitive about your using their net connection for
personal purposes.

Anway, now I've got the new email address so we're in business. I will quote
and respond below:

At 06:12 PM 4/22/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Mr Drew.
>
>Sir, I have a number of things belonging to you which I had
>been trying to return with test results (2 springs) and 1 shock

Horray! John Anderson has test results on my springs for me!

>however I misplaced your adress (emailed you 1+ months ago

The reason I have not been anxious to get the springs back from you until
now is that I thought you needed them to perform the measurements on them.
And also I thought you would need the front shock/spring assembly together
if you were to make that shim to go between these two pieces the way we
discussed. So anyway, I thought you needed the springs up until now.

Address information:

My time nowadays is now split 50-50 between NYC and DC so:

Derek Drew 
487 Columbus Ave. #3R
New York, NY 10024
212-580-4459

Derek Drew
3742 Jocelyn Street NW
Washington DC 20015
202-966-4377

If the shipping cost for the springs is not much more, here is the address
of my workshop (at my parents house) where I do all my work on my van and
where I store the springs:

Derek Drew
19 Butler Hill Road
Somers, NY 10589

Sending things to me in DC might be a good idea as it keeps down the
shipping cost from your location if the stuff is expensive to send. I will
be here until the Saturday (through March 5) after next Saturday (tomorrow))
so I would be here to receive stuff. After that, I'll be in NYC for a week
or two or three depending. But you can still send the springs to DC cause my
wife and 2 year old son live here all the time.

(The DC thing is temporary through August. The reason is that my wife is an
editor at the Washington Post but her assignment here is temporary. In
September she moves back in to our apartment in NYC and begins a 5 year
assignment as a business/financial reporter based in NY.)

I need *your* new? snail mail address too please so I can reimburse you for
shipping/fabrication/anything else. If your snailmail had to be forwarded,
as you said, this implies that you have moved since last fall? 

>for it) however, I have since then come up with a easy way to
>do the 1-1.5" lift you desire.  If you are still interested in the lift
>email me your address, I will mail you a couple of sketches detailing
>the modification which I feel should be 100% as strong as stock
>and will give the desired small lift.  The method is similar to one
>we had thrown about but I feel it is limited to about 1.5" at a
>maximum, a good bit in reality as this would put your Westy back
>in normal syncro land.  The cost is looking about $45 per shock
>to be modified for labor to fab the required part and maybe a bit
>more for welding.  If you are interested, after seeing the sketches
>I will with your permission modify
>the shock I have for your initial evaluation and trial fitment, then
>we could discuss modifying others for use.  I do not know the history
>or quality of this shock but perhaps if it is still of value it might
>be better
>to modify one of the recently posted about Monroe replacements if they
>are a suitable fit.

After much stewing about and consternation I have come to the following
conclusions/analysis. 

My ultimate goal for lift is roughly 4.5cm (mm?), which comes to about
1-3/4" I think. This figure I obtained by measuring the ride height of bone
stock, bare bones, non-GL, non-Westys against the ride height of my own
westy with all the stuff in it that I keep in there all the time (winch, 10
gallons water in the tank, equipment, supplies, etc.) The difference is 1-3/4".

Now, I am going to put the following very carefully but perhaps not very
elegantly. This is an issue that you and Dennis Haynes brought to my
attention and I've been thinking about it. It arises because the front
shocks are almost like bump stops keeping the front wheel from dropping
lower than a certain point.

There is the possibility that a 1 3/4" lift, designed in such a way that I
loose no suspension travel, could cause problems for the front driveshafts
when the vehicle becomes unladen. Specifically, if there is no weight on the
front wheels then the lift we are discussing could cause the front wheels to
drop down an additional 1 3/4" and I feel this is probably excessive for my
current driveshafts (I noted that the lifted Vanagon sold in Germany as the
'16" model' comes with lengthened front driveshafts, which cost big$$,
uncertain to fit in current wheels/transmission, not for me at this time.
Moreover, Dennis Haynes points out that the front driveshafts in the syncro
already make use of a goofy spacer VW employs to effectively lengthen them
so they may be at their limit.) 

Now, if I were to go over a bump at 60 mph and the front wheel were to
become unladen and the CV joint were to become dislodged from its proper
position, there could be a lot of grinding of metal pieces up there.

I had been hoping these last few months that this objection would go away or
that I could ignore it but somehow I find that I cannot, at least without a
lot more research. I called Dennis Haynes again on this point last night and
he urged extreem caution in this area--basically saying not to let the
travel increase.

Anyway, when we last left off discussion, we had identified as... 

=======================================================
ACTIONS which allow the wheel to fall down lower than stock when unladen
(i.e., which do not decrease suspension travel)

1. LENGTHEN SHOCK'S BOTTOM with something like the welding drawings that you
have emailed to me. 

2. SHIM THE SHOCK'S TOP AND THE SPRING AT THE SAME TIME THE SAME AMOUNT.
This would consist of adding a smaller diameter but thick washer between the
front shock and the body of the vehicle (not entirely clear that this can be
done but seems quite possible) and also adding a washing in between the
spring and either its top or its bottom.

=======================================================
ACTIONS which would prevent the wheel from falling down lower than stock
when unladen (i.e., which do decrease suspension travel)

1. SHIM THE FRONT SPRING. This would consist of a huge, thick washer
incerted either under or above the front spring (I have determined that a
shim above the front spring probably should not exceed 1/3" in thickness or
else the spring is in increased danger of popping out of its housing at that
place.) This has the disadvantage that there would be a decrease in
suspension travel to whatever thickness of shim is selected.

2. MAKE NEW FRONT SPRINGS. This would have the advantage that it would not
decrease suspension travel but has the disadvantage that it can cost
hundreds of $$. 

=======================================================

BOTTOM LINE: The best option is to have new front springs made up, using the
data that you have gathered. The second best option is to make up a wedge
that can go either under or over the spring. The third option, (your
excellent idea to weld a 2nd bushing tube to the bottom of the shock in
order to lengthen it) has to go on the back burner for safety reasons.

For now, I am inclined to take advantage of your offer to help me with the
2nd option--that is, to make up a wedge that could go in between the spring
and the flange on the front shock. Such a wedge should be, say, 1-1/2 inch
in diameter. If, later, I wish to allow a slight increase in suspension
travel, I can also add a wedge in between the top of the shock and the
vehicle body, of, say, 1/2 inches.

Here I quote you: 

>But back to your spring mount shimming idea (the typical raising method
>though it does reduce travel.)  What if I say could have fabricated
>something that looks like a giant split lock washer, out of 1" thick
>aluminum.  Sort of a flat aluminum washer/donut then cut and pressed to
>offset it the 1/4" or so.  This seems to be no great task to me
>and gives you a quick easy way to raise.  I don't know however how much
>more than about 1" thick you could go, but still even that would largely
>restore a correct ride attitude.

This sounds excellent. There is space on top of the spring to add yet
another washer of up to 1/3 inches thickness without causing the spring to
leave its seat up there. So a 1.25" "splitwasher" would be perfect. Even a
1" splitwasher would be fine. It is not immediately clear to me how the
washer would be made to have the special shape that would contain the front
spring and fit with the flange on that shock, but I suppose you have a
technique in mind.


My one fear here is that as a split washer made from aluminum, that the
spring eventually cause the splitwasher to expand outwards and depart from
the shock--that the spring would squish that washer out of there unless the
washer were wholly round rather than split. But if you don't think this is
likely, then I'd take your word on it.

So when do I get my splitwashers?

I believe 
 
>Sincerely
>John Anderson
>vwbus@tcpbbs.com
==============================================================================
1ST MESSAGE
=============================================================================

Thank you, John, for all your help. 

I'm going to include some of your earlier communications as appendices. My
aim is to resolve a plan for the front lifting project you are helping me
with as I am tired of driving around like a drag racer with the van higher
in the rear than in the back! 

At 06:56 AM 2/8/96 -0700, you wrote:
>Derek,
>
>Sorry I've not gotten back to you, have not checked my university
>mail in like 4+ weeks.  Just got your snail mail, US PO forwarding at
>its finest. 
> Anyway as I'm probably late on the tools anyway, frankly
>I'm trying hard to sell the Corrado again and won't need anything. 
>I've picked up a couple more solid air cooled bay window buses

Wow!

>anyway.  As to your other query, yeah I'd love a Syncro, want to find
>me one for the $8.5k or so I can get for the G60? I've been looking. 
>I really wanted that damn one Tom F. bought for parts but didn't make
>an offer to the guy less I screwed up the deal for all, hell I even
>had a VR6 lined up to drop in, oh well.  I'm looking into an '87 with
>a brand new factory engine and about 75k on it but the guy wants 10k
>as he sunk 3k into the engine with installation and all.  Anyway on

Ironically, there is a split window rustheap (1966 I think) on my sister's
property and Tom Forhan is first in line to cart it away.

>the lifting subject, I need your address to ship the springs back, as
>the box got to beat up to read.  I still have yet to test the rear
>spring should squeeze it in this or next weekend though. 

Great. This was the original lure that caused me to blast the springs off to
you. I guess I sent you both springs thinking that the data for front and
rear both would be valuable.

>Unfortunately the company frowns on non business e-mail so I really
>shouldn't send from this address, I'll be setting something up at
>home promptly though, the local ISP's local number to me had been

Great. We need you back on the list as you among my half-dozen favorite
posters there. Incredibly knowledgeable along with Tim Smith and now Dennnis
Haynes and a couple of others.

>delayed.  If you really need to get me though go ahead and send to
>this for now, though I might not be able to respond.  Just didn't
>want you too afraid you'll never see the springs again.  BTW I looked

My springs! My dear departed springs! But seriously, there is not a hurry to
get them, and I realize that you have been holding on to them partly just
because you've been waiting to hear back from me about the front lifting
project. Anyway, you can send them back to DC any time you want, or if you
can still help me, after you have measured them and used them for the front
lifting fabrication project.

>into custom springs and could only find 3 companies in the US who
>wind auto coils custom, did you have someone in mind local to you who

I have been creating a database of companies who wind springs, especially
with information about companies that do custom winding. The database is at
another location now, but I can dig into it if you want me to and/or when I
am ready to have the new springs wound myself. When all is said and done,
the database may not be any larger than yours for custom winding.

>does it?  That would highly impress me and the guy I sold my Quantum
>Syncro to is interested in having some raised stuff made.
>
>John

My wife now says she enjoyed the van camping get together we just had with
other list members in eastern PA so there is a possibility we may actually
attend some of these VW events now. 

================================================================================
2ND MESSAGE
================================================================================