Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 13:47:46 -0700
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: ddes@anet-dfw.com (David Schwarze)
Subject: Re: oil temp gauge
At 10:19 AM 6/22/96, James Cohen wrote:
>I don't think Fischer and Berg made a "boo-boo". These guys are more
>expert than you or I could ever hope to be. They know vw engines and have
>experimented with all kinds of senders. If they say it, I'm not going to
>argue with them. Maybe Porsche goofed. Or maybe Porsche's sysetem is
>different and compensates for the sump "too cool" reading.
First of all, I was not comparing Fischer and Berg's experience to mine. I
was comparing it to Porsche's. Porsche has been designing and building air
cooled engines for over 50 years. If you think that Fischer and Berg have
as much experience as Porsche, you are mistaken.
Porsche's system is not complicated. It consists of a slightly different
sump plate, and that's all.
>Also, you are wrong, the dipstick doesn't just read just from the tip.
I never said it did.
>It gets it's reading from the whole length of the stick, and therefore, it
>gets a wider range of coverage.
Hmmm... let's think about that. It gets a wider range of coverage. Do you
WANT a range of coverage? It reads the oil that's at the end of the stick,
the crankcase air above the oil, and the dipstick tube, which is outside
the engine block. Of those three, the only temperature I care about is
that of the OIL. If it really took some sort of average of those three
readings, it would probably read 50 degrees too cool, but it doesn't. I
think you're wrong. The sender may be exposed to other areas, but I bet
the temperature it returns is that of the oil it is touching at or near the
bottom of the dipstick,
Rather than just from the bottom of the
>sump.
Here's where YOU are wrong. The sump sender doesn't read from the bottom
of the sump. It reads from about 2" above the bottom of the sump, which
is about where the surface of the oil in the sump is. I'd call that the
TOP of the sump, and that's the place where the hottest oil is likely to be
- the oil that has just been flung from underneath the piston crowns, or
the oil coming off of the bearings.
>I'll stick with Berg and co. I believe everything else they've said, I
>will give them my faith in this too. Plus, I don't like to take chances,
>rebuilds are a pain in the butt.
Fine. You stick with them, and I'll stick with Porsche. Berg and co. seem
to have been elevated to Godlike status by some people, while Porsche and
VW are not often given any credit for designing and building the engines.
Anyway, both senders will give you useful information, if you know how to
read it. One sender will get in your way every time you check the oil.
>But, of cousre, it is YOUR (all of us) personal decision. Put the sender
>where you want.
And the most important part is to make that personal decision based on some
research, and not what you hear once in passing from a questionable source
(this includes James and myself). I did some research while rebuilding my
second VW engine, and decided on the sump plate sender from VDO/Porsche
based on the fact that the dipstick was at exactly the same spot. It works
great. I am not taking some sort of "chance" by not using a dipstick
sender.
I have provided aan opinion as to why I think a sump plate sender is just
as good as a dipstick sender. I have provided facts to back it up, and one
solid reference (Porsche). I would love to see someone argue the other
side of the issue and back it up with something other than a statement to
the effect of, "Berg is God".
-David
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David Schwarze '73 VW Safare Custom Camper (Da Boat)
Dallas, Texas, USA '73 Capri GT 2800 (Da Beast)
e-mail: ddes@anet-dfw.com '87 Mustang Lx 5.0 (13.986@100.81)
http://www.anet-dfw.com/~ddes '93 Weber WG-50 (Da Piano)
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