Date:         Thu, 11 Jul 1996 22:03:10 -0700
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         ddes@anet-dfw.com (David Schwarze)
Subject:      Re: VW Customer Relations & reality check

At 3:52 AM 7/11/96, Wouter de Waal wrote:
>Hi Ron
>
>I don't really know how to reply to you without seeming to attack you
>personally. But here goes anyway :-)
>
>>>  There is no way that we'll even think of going to the trouble of all the
>>>emission SH*T to export Vanagons. Not to mention that it'll be way
>>
>>Wouter,
>>
>>I have to take strong exception to this.  The emmisions laws in the States
>>are not 'SH*T'.  They exist for a very good reason.  Yesterday, looking
>>across the valley where I live, I could not see the mountains 10 miles away
>>through the haze.  A large amount of that haze is automobile pollution.
>>
>>Emmisions controls are good and necessary.
>
>You live in California. Which has probably the strictest emission laws in
>the world. And still you can't see across the valley. This makes me think
>that those emission control laws are not working too well.

The problem is that there are just too many cars there.  If all of the cars
driving around there today polluted as much as cars from the 60's, it would
be MUCH worse.

>I also follow the do-it-yourself EFI list. People who reverse engineer the
>EFI control computers on modern cars say that the 'closed loop' system,
>where the computer looks at the emissions to adjust the mixture and timing,
>is disabled at full throttle.

Cars spend very little time at full throttle.  This little system also
keeps performance buffs like myself happy.  The WOT cutoff on my Mustang
does a lot of things, including richening the mixture, closing the EGR
valve, and shutting off the A/C compressor.

>What I'm trying to say is, the car
>manufacturers are programming the emission test into the computer, so that
>the car can pass the emission test. Granted, that same car is probably
>cleaner burning in actual use than an older car, but not necessarily. These
>guys have also found strange time delays in the code, which seem to
>correlate with the times spent at certian speeds on the rollers when the
>cars are certified, i.e. the car is run for a certian time at a certian
>speed to simulate 'real' conditions, and this curve is also programmed into
>the box to help the car pass.

I've not heard of such a thing.  Dynamometer tests are not required in
California (yet).

>Another point is that an old VW with a non-standard carb and without half
>the emission stuff can still produce less smog than a brand new (insert
>brand here), since a 1600 pumps less air than a 3L, and the test measures
>percentages.

I don't think so.  I can go up to my friend's 1992 Toyota 4-runner while it
is running, and take a deep breath right out of the tailpipe, and smell
nothing.  Yes, I know there are some (harmful) gasses in there I cannot
smell, but for the most part, that engine and most cars built in this
decade run incredibly clean!  There is no way to get an engine like you
describe above to run that clean.  I would go so far as to say that it
would take 100 or more of the 4-runners to put out as much pollution as one
well-tuned VW 1600 engine (non-catalyst).  I can usually smell a pre-76 car
on the freeway in front of me before I can see it, and some of the Mustang
guys I know that have removed their catalytic converters have problems with
their exhaust being smelly.  Hopefully they will put the cats back on.  Can
you tell I am totally sold on catalytic converters?  I'd put one on my bus
if I could find one that would fit and not bankrupt me.

>What I would like to see, here in SA, but also in other countries, is
>improved public transport. People who go to England or the rest of Europe
>come back amazed at what is possible.

True.  Slowly but surely, the States are learning this.

-David

============================================================================
David Schwarze                   '73 VW Safare Custom Camper       (Da Boat)
Dallas, Texas, USA               '73 Capri GT 2800                (Da Beast)
e-mail: ddes@anet-dfw.com        '87 Mustang Lx 5.0          (13.986@100.81)
http://www.anet-dfw.com/~ddes    '93 Weber WG-50                  (Da Piano)
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