Date: Sun, 04 Aug 96 11:14:45 -0500
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: "W.R. Transue" <trans@castle.net>
Subject: Re: Vanagon engine swaps(long)
John Wakefield's post RULES!
I marvel when people so devoted can write such an excellent overview of such
a interesting concept.
OK Syncronauts.... any hope of getting an Audi 5 cylinder into a Westy
Syncro circa 1987?
Would love t have a spare option should danger come a knockin'.
Thoughts?
Bill
'87 Westy Syncro
-------- REPLY, Original message follows --------
Date: Saturday, 03-Aug-96 11:38 PM
>From: john wakefield \ Internet: (jwakefield@4dmg.net)
To: Vanagon Mailing List \ Internet: (vanagon@lenti.med.umn.edu)
Subject: Re: Vanagon engine swaps(long)
Rick Kovacic says:
"I am contemplating engine conversions for a Vanagon camper; my preference
would be a reliable, water-cooled inline or v-style powerplant that can be
adapted to the VW 4-speed transaxle . snip .
. . . .I want to use the existing water heating/cooling hookups on
the late model Westfalia.
Are you familiar with anyone who makes conversion kits for anything other
than a Porsche 911 engine, and what is your opinion of the success of such
conversions?"
Rick, I've been told the VW bus model US citizens know as the Vanagon,
ALSO known as the Transporter in some United Kingdon markets, ALSO know as
the Kombi in South Africa, and known by other names in other markets, is
still in production at the VW facility in Uitenhage South Africa. They
have addressed your question by producing this van series with the 2.1L
pancakemachine motor (about which motor I'm restraining myself from further
comments about its total cooling system over-design head-room as it relates
to total in-service user experience) AND the 5 cylinder Audi gasoline motor
which I am told produces 100kW and develops 200Nm. of torque.
By using the latest VW "stock" parts and design, your transplant would
become much less subject to the "teething problems" often encountered in
seemingly straight forward transplants. I speak from enough transplant
experience I did decades ago that I could easily miss a few if I tried to
list them. If you have an individually conceived and installed "one-off-
special," you are in a very different positon from having a machine which
uses a factory design but simply isn't directly supported in your own
market. Please don't take may words to mean that I'm opposed to unique
creations, I'm not. The more a person experiences them, the less
discomfort owning one generates. But if you elect to create one, do it
with your eyes wide open, having researched every alternative you can find.
Also, know that this approach removes you one step further from EASY shop
support while putting you in the position of designer. Others who've
worked for vehicle manufacturers can address the amazingly different final
in-service experience effects detail design differences can make (just now,
substituting a piece of plastic for a metal water fitting comes to mind:).
Generally, the longer a manufacturer produces a vehicle design, the better
that product design becomes. VW's long history with their "Beetle" was so
successful and widely known, that "Volkswagen-like improvements" became an
American speach pattern applied to non-automotive areas.
Now, I understand that adapting the 5 cylinder Audi motor using the
factory's approach requires a bell housing never marketed in the US. Also,
you expressed interest in reusing a 4 speed transaxel, presumably the one
you have. As I understand it, there are at least two issues which argue
against this. First, the much stronger Audi 5 cylinder gas motor's torque
curve would probably leave you in top gear feeling like you should shift up
one more gear to lower noise, lower fuel consumption, reduce engine wear,
and all the reasons you now don't normally run around in 3rd gear instead
of 4th. If the torque is obviously there to easily pull another gear, it's
natural to want to shift up. Second, the torque rating on your original 4
speed box WOULD be exceeded every time you really used all that additional
torque. I believe the strongest US van boxes had a torque rating of 147 Nm
. whereas the current South African transmission(s) are rated at 202 Nm., a
factory design change they thought necessary to avoid in-service product
failures. It's my expectation that if you just used an American marketed 5
speed Vanagon box to rocket around town and accelerate as briskly as it can
while avoiding shock loads, you'd never have a problem. But if you decided
to pull a loaded trailer through the mountains or cruise at top speed, you
might cook it. Heavy continuous loads really using all that additional
torque wouldn't be prudent to my thinking. Finally, final ratios and gear
staging difference between available transmissions should be reviewed. So
if you wanted to adopt current VW factory factory design, ordering both the
new bell housing and trans from SA might be justified.
Help in making contact is available.
Finally, we come to Audi 5 cylinder motor selection. I know someone who
just bought an Audi car with a bad trans (reverse output spinning compared
to the one used in the VW bus) but with a good 5 cylinder gas motor. He
paid $200 for the whole car, and plans to replace the trans. That
illustrates how creative digging can allow you to pick up an Audi 5 cylider
gas motor at the low end of a large range of prices. If a seller knows you
NEED IT NOW, they have the upper hand. If a buyer knows the seller NEEDS
TO GET RID OF IT NOW, they have the upper hand. You know how markets work.
I'd study one of the multi-year Chilton's Foreign Repair Manuals to learn
motor specification differences for different years. Pubic librarys have
them. I've no interest in having a gaser, so I've not researched this area
..
But if you were a certifiable diesel nut, (blush, that's me), you'd have
other alternative VW/Audi motors to consider. I understand that my diesel
interest is uncommon in the US, but that's only because others aren't up to
speed on what's best in my opinion. Get out your 50 pound salt lick,
because a grain may not be enough to tolerate this: Diesels are more
efficient, often around 31% compared to 26% for gas motors, they typically
last at least twice as long, holding other factors equal, and the new Audi
direct injection Turbo Diesel Inner cooled motors have closed the
performance gap between gas and diesel motors, and without smoking. Just
to illustrate how much cleaner these motors are than their older indirect
injection siblings, Audi/VW calls for oil changes every 5000 miles on the
indirect injection motors, and every 10000 miles on this new cleaner, more
efficient, more powerful, fast accelerating state of the art motor series.
I understand that the average usable torque between commonly used shift
points is actually higher for these direct injection TDI motors than for
equivelant peak horsepower rated gas motors, so they "feel" stronger. My
how things change. Only the 90 horse 1.9L has been released into the US
market, but salvage yards in other countries including Canada have them.
If you stayed with the four cylinder version, the transplant should look
like a normal service item to VW shops everywhere a few years down the pike
and the bell housing issue wouldn't apply. Just my perspective.
The Vanagon list has had information on this topic before and will have
more as details are learned.
John Wakefield
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