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Date:         Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:58:56 -0800 (PST)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Charles D Earl <cdearl@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject:      Re: RE>Re: FWD>Help!!! Broken down on a dirt road in Costa Rica!

Kirk,

Thanks for writing back. I'm glad that your experience with this shop=20 has been so good, in fact, I have never heard of such excellent treatment= =20 by an auto repair shop. Talk about contrasting opinions!

Unfortunatly, what I spoke of really happened. I saw the ad, drove to=20 the shop, told Roger what I was hearing and recieved the "need a new=20 engine" verdict when I returned. The van was new to me, I had never=20 owned a VW before and was not very knowledgable about the internal=20 workings of its engine. I wouldn't be surprised if my ignorance was=20 fairly obvious at the time. Roger said it could be several things=20 including possibly valves, but a valve job alone was not offered as an=20 option. He said that whatever the problem was it was internal and that=20 the engine needed to be pulled and disassembled, and that since it was=20 relatively high milege (115K at the time) it would be better to have it=20 rebuilt or replaced (which, if I really thought the engine needed to be=20 removed, I would agree with).

Obviously no one wants to hear that they need a new engine from anybody,=20 regardless, I needed to think it over and told him this. He called a=20 couple of times to set up an appointment which I kept putting-off. I=20 then had the vehicle checked out by 2 other reputable shops (including my= =20 current one, Freds), both of whom concurred precisely, that it was a=20 valve lifter which sticks occasionally. They both said that as long as=20 this tapping goes away by the time the engine reaches operating temp it=20 is only a noise if one can learn to live with it. In fact, they both=20 suggested frequent oil changes to loosen up the lifter, advice which I have= =20 followed and that has=20 resulted in this noise becoming more and more infrequent. I have since=20 further confirmed this analogy in several books and posts on this list=20 and info in web sites. Further, both shops agreed if I really couldn't=20 live with it, or if the sound started to not go away, that a valve job=20 would cure it completely, $5-700. Apparently, this is a frequent problem= =20 with Vanagons, I would be interested in hearing from other listees who=20 have experienced this syndrome.

Certainly the situation was subjective, I complained of a noise and Roger= =20 suggested a route which would get rid of it, and he's right, a new engine= =20 would get rid of the noise. I did not disbelieve him at the time, it was= =20 only after I did extensive research on the subject that I formed a solid=20 opinion. Who knows, perhaps my engine will totally fail as he predicted,= =20 it just hasn't happened yet in over 35K since my visit to this shop. =20 Since, I=20 have had major tuneups/inspections every 10K which include checking all=20 systems and a=20 compression check. The van recieves a clean bill of health each time.

Coincidentally, it was very close to 2 years ago that this happened, it=20 is interesting that my experience apparently occurred very close to, or at= =20 the same time as Roger was selling the shop. I think of the reasons for=20 which one might sell one's livelihood, and money problems comes to mind.

Regardless, to set the record straight, while its true that I had a very=20 bad experience, you say that yours has been more then satisfactory. This= =20 gives some balance to the situation. Moreover, the shop is now owned and= =20 run by different people, which probably means that my past experience has= =20 no bearing on the present situation. Therefore, I would have to say that= =20 as far as I am concerned, there is no reason why one shouldn't check this= =20 shop out and form their own opinion. In fact, now that I am informed, I=20 would probably give Gandalf's a second chance if I needed help and was in= =20 the area. =20

Kirk, thanks for the objective response. Take it easy

Charles--Stardate 012697

On 26 Jan 1997, Kirk van Druten wrote:

> They (the folks at Gandalf's Garage in South San Francisco) are friends, = but only because of the service and experience I've had with them over the = years. My intention is not to defend them for any possible wrong doing in = the past but mention the good experience I've had there. >=20 > I've been a client for at least 6 years. From my first 79 van to my 88 W= esty, they've been the only shop to work on my VW's. They've loaned me kno= wn-working parts (even electrical stuff) and given me endless troubleshooti= ng advice about places to stick my volt meter and what kind of readings I s= hould be getting. They regularly schedule time for me on days when they'r= e not too busy and let ME do most of the work on my 88 Westy in their shop.= I install my own shocks, work on my brakes (up on the rack is unreal!), f= lush/fill coolant, etc. I'd be hard pressed to think of a shop anywhere wh= ere that kind of relationship with their clients goes on. >=20 > Your account of Roger is surprizingly out of character for him from my pe= rsonal experience with Gandalf's Garage. For the record, he sold the shop = to Rodrigo and Gretchen Castelanos about 2 years ago. The service and expe= rtise has only improved since. >=20 > I've never heard of anyone with anything but good things to say about Gan= dalf's, I'm sorry your experience wasn't so grand. >=20 > Kirk out=20 > -------------------------------------- > Date: 1/25/97 11:32 PM > To: Kirk van Druten > From: Charles D Earl > Kirk, >=20 > This is not really an answer to your (friends) dilemna, but I had to writ= e when I saw mention of "Gandalf's" When I lived in SF I was attracted by = their ad with the picture of the "VW wizard" in the yellow pages. I had be= en hearing a valve lifter tapping slightly on occasion while warming up my = Westy, then it would go away and stay away. As I have since been told by s= everal reputable sources, including seeing posts about this on this list, t= his is a common problem with Vanagons. It can mean time for a valve job (e= specially if the sound doesn't go away) but that is a worst case seanario. = Usually it is just a sound if you can live with it. > My point? A Gandalf's mechanic (Roger I believe was his name, maybe even= the owner) told me I needed a new engine or a rebuild, no if, ands or buts= about it. I doubted this, said I'd think about it and decided to pass. I= then proceeded to gather the info mentioned above. Roger even called back= twice to ask when I was going to schedule my much needed engine replacemen= t. Well, 30k later (which includes 3 road trips of 6k+ apiece, subjecting = my van to torturous weather, altitude and hill climbing conditions), the sa= me engine runs perfectly. Sorry Roger, I don't think so. Don't take this = wrong, I'm way over it (for all I know these may be your friends), but that= was my singular, what I would call, very negative experience with this sho= p. As far as I'm concerned, they wanted to charge me $3000. for unneccesary= work. If my experience with them was supposed to be "magical," then I wou= ld have to say it was the dark side of the force. I will never give them m= y business or recommendation. > As I posted earlier, I recommend Fred's Garage in Redwood City for Bay ar= ea residents. I hope your friends were rescued. Are they on a surf trip? >=20 > Good luck, >=20 > Charles > '83.5 GL Westy >=20 >=20 > On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Kirk van Druten wrote: >=20 > > FWD>Help!!! Broken down on a dirt road in Costa Rica! 97-01-25= 10:=3D > > 02:57 > > Hey everyone, > > > My friends Dave and Whitney are in their '88 Westy in Costa Rica! Th= ey =3D > > drove it all the way down there from the San Francisco bay area! I jus= t =3D > > got the following message from them. I gave a few basic troubleshootin= g =3D > > ideas and some experiences I had while troubleshooting my dying ECU =3D > > computer but thought I would forward his message to the wisdom of the l= ist.=3D > > > > I'm off list at the moment-I'll be your best friend if you email an= y =3D > > troubleshooting tips directly to him (and copy to me if possible). His= =3D > > address is davidadair@aol.com > > I'm at lansharks@batnet.com Thanks mucho in advance. > > > Kirk out > > -------------------------------------- > > Date: 1/25/97 7:48 AM > > From: DavidAdair > > Serious question, dude-man. Driving down a dirt road, no problemas, go= ing > > maybe 25 mph, and the car died suddenly, no sputtering, no nothing, jus= t > > dead. Still have electrical systems, battery, etc., just absolutely no > > ignition. > > > We've had a number of occasions where the car "burps", and stalls for= just =3D > > a > > second, like what I remember you describing yours doing. I've also hea= rd =3D > > of > > someone who's VW used to crap out for 10 minutes, then run fine again f= or =3D > > a > > month, when it would happen again. We've been baking in the sun for ab= out =3D > > 3 > > hours, waiting for a mechanic to show up, and nothing's improved. > > > Question on my mind is primarily whether the "computer" could totally= die. > > Also, I've only checked the basics, like loose wires and made sure the= =3D > > rotor > > is turning. What else should I be checking? Since it was so sudden, i= t > > seems like it must be electrical, like a loose or broken wire or that d= urn > > computer. Where is the computer, anyway? Is it the funky piece next t= o =3D > > the > > air filter? What about the "controller" under the back seat? > > > If you can e-mail some response pronto, please do. We're probably sp= ending=3D > > > the night here, and can call in for messages. If you can relay =3D > > information > > from Rodrigo if the need arises, that would be awesome. Depending on w= hat > > the mechanic can find or not find, we'll just call Rodrigo directly, si= nce =3D > > he > > speaks Spanish anyway. I appreciate any advice you have. > > > Cheers mon, > > > Dave (and Whitney).... late-breaking update: we got towed to a garag= e =3D > > where > > a German guy looked at our car and found only a little bit of testabili= ty =3D > > in > > the ignition system. It looks like we'll replace our control unit. I = =3D > > called > > Gandalf's to find out how difficult it is to get the part, cuz we're go= ing > > nowhere til we get it. I'll keep you posted. > > >=20 >=20 > RFC-822 Header: > ---------------------------------------------------- > Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU) by batnet.com (4.1/S= MI-4.1) > =09id AA21844; Sat, 25 Jan 97 23:18:20 PST > Received: from meow.UCSC.EDU (cdearl@meow.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.4]) > by cats.ucsc.edu (8.8.5/8.8.4.cats-athena) with SMTP > =09 id XAA25364; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:18:50 -0800 (PST) > Received: by meow.UCSC.EDU (8.6.13/4.7) id XAA07143; Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:= 18:41 -0800 > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:18:41 -0800 (PST) > From: Charles D Earl <cdearl@cats.ucsc.edu> > Subject: Re: FWD>Help!!! Broken down on a dirt road in Costa Rica! > To: Kirk van Druten <kirk@lansharks.batnet.com> > Cc: Multiple recipients of list <vanagon@lenti.med.umn.edu> > In-Reply-To: <970125.190507@lansharks.batnet.com> > Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9701252200.A6325-0100000@meow.UCSC.EDU> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=3DUS-ASCII >=20 >=20


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