Date:         Thu, 20 Mar 1997 04:58:07 -0500
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Leavitt <mleavitt@tiac.net>
Subject:      Re: Leaking synthetic oil?

Frayed1003@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Has anyone had any experience with changing to synthetic oil.  I read online
> that synthetic will usually leak more at first because it cleans out all the
> wax around your seals, leaving behind shrunken dry seals.  It said in this
> article, not to worry because your dry seals will swell again and stop the
> leak.  I switched to a semi-synthetic around 800 miles ago and my engine is
>  really beginning to leak oil.  Does anyone know how long this should last?
>  Being that I have an air-cooled I am beginning to think I may have made a
> mistake, the smell is killing my girlfriend, she won't even ride in my westy
> with me anymore.

 Jeez, when your girlfriend won't ride in your Westy anymore, then it's
time to get serious, we definitely have to help this guy!! I can just
see it now, another new product: Under-Engine Deodorant for
Vanagons!...Byyyyy MENNon! "Hey if I like a guy, that's one thing, but
if his Vanagon smells...it's over!" (if you haven't seen the commercial,
you won't get that :)

> My other concern with the leak is that maybe I am overfilling with oil.  When
> I change my oil and filter the dipstick reads full after three quarts.  My
> mechanic said the dipsticks aren't very accurate and to go ahead and put all
> four in.  This makes the dipstick read as though it is a quart to full.  So
> I've been waiting until the oil returns to the full notch then I add another
> quart.  Am I going to hurt anything if I am to full?  If the reason for the
> leak is from overfilling do you think I ruined the seals or is it possible
> that it will stop leaking once the oil gets down to where it belongs?  Thanks
> in advance and sorry to get so lengthy.  I'm just hoping the people at work
> don't figure out who it is that is responsible for leaving puddles of oil
> everywhere.
 
 Ack!!! (:o  Yes, you are over filling it! This is the reason I haven't
let mechanics near my VWs/motorcycles in years. 
 If I've got this straight, you are adding a quart OVER the 'full' line
on your dipstick regularly??? if so, this is your problem, but now
you've created what sounds like some serious leaks.

 First I would suggest that you read the John Muir book entitled "How to
Keep Your Volkswagen Alive for the Complete Idiot"(assuming that you
haven't). No, I'm not saying that your an idiot, it's a real book.
Actually, it's one of the best instructional guides for learning how to
truly understand those quirky and lovable air-cooled VWs. It tells you
in explicit and humorous detail information that other manuals couldn't
be bothered to convey or just don't know. For instance, if John Muir
says that you are likely to drop the washer that was held in place by
the clevis pin that you just removed and that it will have most likely
rolled under the left rear wheel, then chances are that's exactly what
will happen. 
 However, since I doubt that your at a bookstore right now, I will try
my best to pass on the sacred Muir-ism. 
 Air-cooled VW engines are VERY sensitive to being overfilled with oil!
The next time your mechanic says something inane like that, ask him to
put it in writing so you can show it to his boss when your engine is
leaking like the Exxon Valdez. Trust your dipstick, it is the only
assurance that you have other than pulling apart your engine, cleaning
every single part dry of oil with cottons swabs, and reassembling it
with exactly the correct measured amount of oil. Why the heck wouldn't
the dipstick be accurate??? I think that by 1981 they'd have perfected
that technology.  However...if you've just done an oil AND filter change
then you must take into account that that the filter (usually about
1/2-1/4 qt capacity) will only fill up with oil when the engine starts
running, aaannndd that there is still some old oil trapped inside the
engine that won't come out no matter how much you hold it above your
head and shake it. 
 So where does this leave you? Well, you have to consider both factors
when changing and checking. 
 What I do is to fill the engine up with about 3 quarts or until the
dipstick says about 3/4ths full and then run it at idle for about 5-10
minutes while I check my e-mail. This allows the oil to fill up the
filter. Once I've done that, I shut her down and let her sit and settle
for another 10 minutes while I watch TV. 
 Darn, nothing on TV...so I check the level again. 
 It's usually settles to about 1/2 and then I fill it up a little at a
time until it's just over 3/4 full again. I don't fill it up to the top
line until after I have driven it a bit and then let it sit on level
ground overnight. 
 In the morning is the best time to check your oil, the engine is cold
and the oil has settled. I have no doubt that some will disagree and say
to check it when it's hot, but that will invariably always give you a
lower reading than the one that you really want. Besides that, it's not
accurate, how hot is 'hot'? What if you wait too long? In my experience
when a full engine is hot it will lie to you and pretend that it's only
3/4ths full (or 1/4 empty, depending on it's attitude). Then, don't even
think about opening that oil bottle. Once you've overfilled it you run
the risk of blowing the seals on: (usually in this order) the pushrod
tubes(not too hard to replace), the oil cooler(DOH!!),the infamous main
seal(might as well drop the engine...)and many others as well. The
average A/C VW engine will find places to leak that even the 'Psychic
Friends Network' wouldn't think of. 
 Although I can't confirm this, I imagine that synthetic oil leaks more
than dinosaur oil because it doesn't goo-up as much and has better
cleaning abilities like you said. But, over all I'd attribute your
problem to overfilling on a possibly already leaking motor(typically any
A/C motor with over 50k mi), and of course lets not forget driving
habits. VW motors that are over-lugged just love to 'weep' about it to
get some attention.  
 Don't worry about the valve covers, they leak no matter what you do. If
they leak a lot, the cork gasket might have been misaligned when the
cover was closed, a good trick is to 'P-tex'(silicone gasket in a tube)
them to the cover, but NEVER the head.

 You might try switching back to dino oil and using and heavier weight
in the summer like 20-50, or just using a higher viscosity synthetic.
The leaking should taper off a little when you stop overfilling it. 

 Try to isolate the source of the major leaks, too.  
 
Hope that this helps,

Noel (fellow '81 Westy w/newly rebuilt motor that still leaks!)

                               VOLKSWAGEN
                               _--````--_
                             / _--````--_ \
                           / /  \ \  / /  \ \
       '81 Vanagon Westy  | | \  \ \/ /  / | | '68 Sunbug Autostick
                          | |\ \  )--(  / /| |                  
             (named Vana) | | \ \/ /\ \/ / | | (named Rachel)
                           \ \_\  /  \  /_/ /
                             \ _``----``_ /
                                ``----`` 
                               1937--1997