Date:         Mon, 05 May 1997 14:18:45 -0400
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         David Katsuki <katsuki@bbn.com>
Subject:      Re: Clarification on Handling of Vanagons

Mark,

I'm the one that asked about Westy handling on my '90 originally, and I
contrasted the handling of the Westy to that of my 87 Wolfsburg (lowered
suspension, which I think is superb for a van.   I think they changed
something for the 90 Westy and I'm trying to find out what it is, since the
87 with double the miles and worn suspension bits handles much better that
the Westy.    

On increase in height of center of gravity - I've driven my 87 with more
than 150 lbs of plywood on top (yeah, I know you're only supposed to put
100 on the rails), and it is my recollection that it was sluggish, but not
unusually so.   

I'm starting to suspect that the 90 Westy just has softer springs than the
87, but I also suspect that the sway bar is smaller than it should be, and
I'd like to  get one of you folks with good-handling late Westys to measure
the diameter of your sway bar.    Mine is 21 mm (measured under the
undercoating.)

On smaller/stiffer sidewall tires in the front only - this can cause very
bad handling.   Reason is that  the slip angles of the front and rear tires
will then be different, and this will cause one one end or the other to
grip and start lateral force sooner in the initiation of a turn than the
other end.
This effect is most pronounced when the front end tires have a larger slip
angle than the rear (as when I put on snow tires in the winter),  but I've
also experienced very vague handling with the reverse condition also.
With an extreme mismatch it feels like balancing a broomstick.   The
extreme example that is always cited is putting on radials in the front and
bias-ply in the rear (makes the car undrivable).

Dave

At 12:58 PM 5/3/97 -0500, mark keller wrote:
>        The information I wrote concerning the handling differences of a
>vanagon and a vanagon camper were a response to a message I read, but
>trashed to soon, on the list.  The owner had just purchased a camper and
>was curious why the camper handled differently than his regular camper. In
>that message he asked about various ideas he was considering. Tires,
>swaybars and etc. That is the  context in which I was addressing my
>thoughts.
>
>        But since the endorsing statements of overall handling has been
>made, I would wholeheartedly agree. I have absolutely loved the handling of
>vanagons, from the first test drive. Since I just bought my first one,
>after seven years of looking and driving at many different vanagons and
>vanagon campers, I thought the two best were a 80 with new gas shocks and a
>87 Wolfsburg. My opinion of course.
>
>        One gentleman wrote the my suggestion of 1" smaller tires on the
>front axle was "just plain DANGEROUS". While I don't know of his rational,
>I would't hesitate to do it on my vehicle. I do know that different tires
>sizes on the same axle is a no no, I have not heard of it being dangerous
>on the front or rear of vehicle, as long as the tires are of the same size
>on each axle.  I'm sure there is a practical limit as to how much
>offsetting differnce you have.  Dragesters seemed to have quite a bit, but
>they don't corner, except for right at the end when they turn off of the
>strip. A varity of tuned suspension set ups utlize the offset in either
>tire height or width to accomplish specific goals for the vehicle.
>
>        So, my suggestions were merely a starting point for the individual
>who was considering, and asking for ideas on how to improve the handling on
>his camper vanagon.  I would believe he understands that "porche" like
>handling is not the goal of this excersise, but to merely do what he can
>with what he has.
>
>        Sorry to apparently offend fellow vanagon owners with the
>impression that the vanagon and vanagon camper is somehow not a excellant
>driving vehicle as is.  I believe the vanagon to be a world class machine,
>bar none. And incedently, I agree that any other van that I have driven
>falls way short in the total package of enjoyment to drive and
>functionality.
>
>Mark Keller 91 Carat
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