Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:17:55 EDT
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: uvx196@juno.com (Jim Thompson)
Subject: Re: Westy Engines
On Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:42:21 -0500 sdurrant@MosbyCH1.com (Scott Durrant)
writes:
>Hi All,
>
>More questions.
>
>It is my understanding that the water-boxers from '83.5 --> '87 had
>some
>design flaws resulting in head leak problems, but the '88 --> '91
>water-boxers had this problem fixed.
Actually, the cooling system was redesigned for the 1986 model year, the
same year the 2.1 was introduced.
In doing a recent engine job on my 84 Auto Westy, I carefully went
through each part of the cooling system, thoroughly checking all of the
components - radiator, heater core(s), pipes, etc. Looking at the
diagrams in Bentley and comparing them to the existing 1.9 cooling system
I really could not find any inherent "design" flaws. The heads are
basically the same, especially when attaching to the case & cylinders and
the water flow appears to be going in the same direction in both versions
of the engine. Still, I'm no engineer and have relative "newby" status
compared to others on the list when it comes to Wassers. After 2 1/2
years (83.5 thru 85), VW Engineers (an oxymoron?) apparently felt the
system needed improvement and a re-design was made. In reading the posts
from various 86-91 owners, there appears to be "some" improvement, but
people still have their problems with it I guess.
I'm presently using the existing 1.9 cooling system with my 2.1 engine
upgrade and have encountered no problems so far in the past few hundred
miles, even in century-mark weather here in Northern Calif. and I have
been keeping an eye on the coolant tanks, hoses and other stuff while
it's being broken-in. Water Temp Gauge needle has been consistently
running between just to the left of the warning LED to just over the LED
itself, even in stop-and-go traffic. Stays that way too at 65mph on I-5.
I run an 80C (160F) OE German Thermostat and stock (87C) Fan Switch. I
have a 76C Fan Switch that is standard equipment on the later (88-91?)
models that I hope to install to get the fan to come on sooner, but maybe
I'm being paranoid, eh? (VW 251-959-481K)
Maybe it's a little over-board, but my late father instilled to me the
need for proper vehicle periodic maintenance and even more so,
preventative maintenance with regards to Volkswagens since the early
60's. I apply that learning to any vehicle I own (and have owned) by
religiously following a maintenance schedule. I check my v-belt & oil
daily (and now with the 84, the coolant tanks too) and weekly check other
stuff that I've learned "could" present a problem (such as fuel hoses
[and now coolant hoses/pipes/fittings]). It's amazing how many people
have pulled into the business and can't remember the last time they
checked their v-belt, coolant or oil or even looked into the engine
compartment ("I let my mechanic handle it"). You don't have to be
Joe-Mechanic to do this either. Just learn the areas that need looking
after on a regular basis. OTOH, there are vehicles out there that no
matter what you do, they just nickel 'n' dime you to death.
Answers to the other questions below:
>
>Questions:
>
>Will an engine from an '88 --> '91 Westy bolt right into the '83 -->
>'87
>Westys?
Sure, shouldn't present a problem. I didn't see any glaring
modifications that had to be made when doing it. I did have to use the
Center Air Plenum and Air Intake Runners from the 86-91 2.1 engine as
per VW & Bentley. Used the original 1.9 Digijet FI and runs great (so
far).
>
>And if so, what will one pay for a good rebuilt '88 --> '91 Westy
>engine?
Long block rebuilds are around $1800 exchange PLUS about a $700 Core
Charge if there is no exchange. Core charges are of course subject to
the inspection of the core engine by the rebuilder. Personally speaking,
I've found and heard from others that AVP in Sacramento, CA tend to have
the best overall quality for both engines and heads. They did a super
job on my 2.1 heads for my upgrade. I'm sure other listees have had as
good luck with others not mentioned so often.
With regards to Wasser Cylinder Heads, I happen to like what Leonard at
AVP does to certain areas where the Water Jackets come awful close to the
outside casting areas. Leonard welds and builds up these areas which are
prone to cracking and in effect, cause water/steam leaks. Pitting on the
joining faces is a problem regardless if it's a 1.9 or 2.1 engine, caused
by electrolysis between the two different metals of the head/cylinder
contact. I've heard that using coolant with no phosphates helps prevent
this and even adding additional grounstraps between the 2 heads and the
body/frame help too. Again, I'm no expert, but what the hey, I'll try
anything to extend the life of a newly-rebuilt engine.
>
>Are new '88 --> '91 engines available? How much?
Not to the best of my knowledge. Not even VW offers these anymore, that
I know of. Maybe Oettinger in Germany, but betcha it ain't
cheap.................;-)
Hope this helps. Good luck Scott!
Jim
84 Westy 2.1 * 62 Beetle (Father was orig. owner)
Sherwood Automotive * The Old Volks Home (oldvolkshome1@juno.com)
(916)221-5342
