Date:         Wed, 06 Aug 1997 11:46:16 -0400
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Derek Drew <drew@interport.net>
Subject:      Syncro Heavy Duty Shocks And Springs

I had a talk today with Peter Seikel on the issue of heavy springs and
shocks for syncro and now questions which for many years have gone
unanswered are now answered: 

1. Basically, of the three factory front shocks for Vanagon Syncro, all are
identical in dimensions and are progressively stiffer from suffix C to
suffix M to suffix N. This is from W. Grabherr who emails from the mother
ship in Graz at SDP! We have established contact, Scotty! Anyway, SDP called
up Peter Seikel at Autohaus Seikel so that when I called him by phone this
morning he already knew who I was. That was quite a suprise. I'm famous!

2. Peter Seikel is happy to sell these and says the N style was the factory
option for the years 90 and 91 for 16" Transporters. Seikel says the springs
he sells are much stiffer than the factory springs and are also progressive
rate. He said the factory springs are 75 kios per 1cm spring rate whereas
his springs are 140 kilos per 1 cm. He says his heavy duty springs can fit
even a factory original C suffix shock absorber, so everthing fits together
in any combination, with no compatibility problems. 

I explained to Seikel that my purpose right now was to save on $$ a little,
and possibly order just the front springs. Seikel said that would be
undesirable because the rear springs would be so squishy by comparison, but
said that I could temporarily build an aluminum doughnut to go under the
rear springs so that the ride height between front and rear would be
equalized if not the spring rate. I told him that I had, indeed, already
lifted the rear this way by use of rubber doughnuts (as I have reported to
the list with earlier posts.)

3. Peter Seikel is horrified that I want to order via government surface
mail (by ship) since it takes so long, but he becomes understanding when I
explain that, in my experience, government mail often forgets to impose duty
whereas you are more likely to get into a duty situation if you go through a
commercial carrier. Last time I ordered parts from Europe, there was a stamp
on the box saying "Receiver is responsible for paying any duty" and that was
the last time I heard anything about it. The time before that, the postman
just left the box in the hallway of my building here in New York, and I
never saw him.

4. The prices:

        Front spring: DM243 each is $135 each @ 1.8 exchange = $270 the pair
        Rear spring: DM315 each is $175 each @ 1.8 exchange = $350 the pair

        Front shock DM315 each is $175 each @ 1.8 exchange = $350 the pair
        Rear shock DM208 each is $115 each @ 1.8 exchange = $230 the pair

        So you have a full setup of heavy duty springs and shocks for $1,200 

5. I believe it is silly to get the rear shocks, as they are a standard sort
of size, and it should be possible to find USA equivalents at cheaper prices.

6. I am sorely tempted to get just the front springs for now, at $270 the
pair. If you have read this far, your advice on running a spring 140 kilos
per 1 cm in the front vs. 70 kilos per 1 cm in the rear is solicited. That
is, what effects would this have on handling--can you imagine the likely
outcome of such a setup. Seikel sort of emphasizes that he thinks you should
go with the whole $1,200 setup all at once. He also says he will be gone the
last two weeks of August as he is at some kind of automotive event.

There is some difficulty over Seikel's fax number as he insisted it was 

49 6055 82731 whereas some others (SDP) lists it as
49 605  82731  Apparantly SDP left out a 5.

Anyway, he said he doesn't take Visa but to just send through a fax saying
"I hereby order..." and then he will fax back his bank account number, or
something like that. Dunno what to do with that number, exactly.

The rest of the material below is quoted stuff:

=======================================

     Physical dimensions of all shock absorbers are identical. The
difference lies in the setting (stiffness) and there the shock absorber
with suffix N is the stiffest (hardest) one. Ride might be a bit harsh
with the unladen vehicle.
Best regards W. Grabherr

======================================

Von: 	Carl Hansen
Gesendet: 	Donnerstag, 24. Juli 1997 00:52
An: 	Thomas Niksch
Betreff: 	Syncro front shocks questio

Vie Gehts.    

Gut geht's ! Danke !

Then one of the list members mentioned that he had heard there were 3 shocks 
listed for the front of Syncro Vanagon's in Germany.  I need someone to verify 
this for me as I do not speak German.

I would like to know Part Number, 


>>>>>>>>>>
front: 	251 413 031 C	regular
	251 413 031 M	14'' HD package "Schlechtwegepaket"
	251 413 031 N	16''


rear:	251 513 031 D	regular
	251 513 031 M	14'' HD package
	251 513 031 N	16''

Peter Seikel in Freigericht near Frankfurt/Main recommends the "N" absorbers.
He could give you a quote and also details about the technical data maybe 
manufacturerer.

Auto Seikel GmbH
Herr Peter Seikel
Industriestrasse 5
D 63579 Freigericht
Phone: +49 - 60 55 - 52 82
Fax: +49 - 60 55 - 82 731

Seikel used to develop racing and off-roading suspensions for all kinds of VW 
and Audi also the T3 syncros he is probably the most experienced person about 
these items. Give him a call or better a fax it is worth while. He also offers 
reinforced coil springs for the T3 syncro.

Another adress you could try is:
projektzwo
Herr Rissmann
Saarburgstrasse 13
D 86899 Landsberg
Phone: + 49 - 81 91 - 92 77 - 0
Fax: +49 - 81 91 - 92 77 - 99

I am sure they all speak english. If there is no reaction or help from them 
give me a mail and I'll try for you again.

hope this was of any help for you 

till later Tom N.

___________________________________
Derek Drew                           New York, NY
drew@interport.net