Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:15:56 -0400
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: mark keller <kelphoto@BRIGHT.NET>
Subject: Re: Stereo / CD Issues, improvement suggestions
Well Ellis
I managed to get a set of 6 1/2" Boss 2 way speakers in the stock
postition, sort of, of my 91 Carat. I say sort of because aside from the
clearance issue, the stock 4" units are not centered in the sheet metal cut
out the factory provides. So if a larger diameter speaker is desired you
have to sort of enlarge the opening so that the new speaker's center is now
closer to the front of the van.
Said differently the Part of the speaker's grill that is the closet to the
rear of the vehicle is pretty much the same for the stock 4" and the new
larger speaker.
Of course I wanted larger speaker's, the install guy says no way, there
just isn't space. Fine, I said, I'll figure out way to do it.
What I did was to fabricate from a flat sheet of galvanized metal a
speaker mount that permited me to attach the complete speaker and grill to
the mount, and then attach the mount to the door's inner sheet metal. I
then opened up the the trim panel for the speaker's grill to protrude
though the 1/4 " inch or so that was available. Looks good, factory, and
sound great!.
We also did 4" in the back overhead location, I wanted 5" but it was a no
go, without major messing around. Two 8" subs. One where yours was beneath
the rear seat, and one beneath the driver's seat, in the cavity that the
second battery goes for campers. The installerremoved the metal hinged
cover, contructd a 3/4" speaker mount that performs two functions. The
mount extends to the front of the seat compartment, with a perpendicular
baffle that "isolates" the front part of the compartment from the battery
cavity. This "new" isolated space is where my 6 CD changer is. He cut a
very nice opening in the non-structrual sheet metal front so I just reach
beneath my seat and remove the CD's magzine--very slick.
The battery compartment has the sub firing up, the rear seat sub fires
horizontally, some techno reason he blabbed about, it works though. We
entered the system in a International Auto Sound Challenge Assciation
competition. The installer wanted to win, but inadvertly turned the subs
off, His mistake. However, we still go outstanding scores for Imaging, and
sound stage amd ambience category's. Still some tweeking to do. Next time
we'll get em.
Anyway, bottom line, it's possible to put larger 6 1/2" round speaker's in
the front doors, high up so they sound great. Personally I believe 2 way
4"'s in the back are completely adequate if a sub woofer is used beneath
the seat either front or rear prferably both. My choice for the driver's
seat was to "feel" the bass. But remember that low sound is
unidirectional, and as long as the subs have some distance between them
they will provide a good floor to your system.
The mids and High are much more dependent on good alignment with your
listening postions. I am very impressed with the stock alignment of my
Carat. The real compromise in my opinion is trying to fill the vangaon with
quality lows from four all purpose speakers. Can't be done. Upgrade the
four stock holes with speakers whos tones please your ears, 2 ways, ie a
separate tweeter with a mid range speaker. And then for stage two, fill the
vangons cavernous interior with one or two subs.
BTW, all I have said assumes a compentent sound guru to help you select
componets. Don't shop walmart, bring home "Spark o Matic" type components
and then gripe the advice was bad. That goes for compentent installation
and tuning of you gear. My guy set up an active cross over, and one 50
watt 2 way amp to drive the subs. My compents are: Clarion Pro Audio ARX
6370 Head Unit 4 x 14 Watts RMS, 35 Watts peak, Clarion CD 635 6 Disc
Changer, 2 Boss 6 1/2" two way front speakers, 2 Boss 4" two Way rear
speakers. Two 8" Planet Audio subwoofers, one Planet Audio P502 50 watt x
2 chanel amp, and a Boss AVA-CR200 Active Crossover.
Plus all the right power wire, speaker wire and etc.
The sound deading, wind noise, and other stuff will degrade any system. A
fix is to use a long rubber hose, just about any diameter you have will
work, Use this as a "stethoscope" to probe where noise enter's your Van.
Once you locate the "source" plug up the hole. On an 83' I'll bet you've
got a few holes in the structure that are allowing noise to enter. Air is a
very good tranmitter of sound. A small hole will I repeat will allow a lot
of noise in. Better to have a partner drive the bus while you go around
listening for noise leaks.
Another way is have a partner hold a light on either the inside or outside
of the van at night, while you look for the light leaks. Caulk these up
too.
The final step would be to go back and listen for sound that is resonating
through panels. Ie the engine bulkhead beneath the seat. That KOOL PATCH
stuff would work or you can buy sound deading insulation to apply. Under
the front seats, are the front wheel wells. They are a must. I applied a
sound deading insulation on both, first step. A tremdous amount of
resonation is generated from the wheel wells.
Don't forget to remove covers, Ie the transmission selector on an
automatic, glove box, fuse box, whatever, so you can SEE if light is
getting through. Do this and you'll be well on your way to an excellant
sound evironment.
Mark Keller
91 Carat WLE
Lazarus
>I have sunk a couple of bucks into the sound system of my early '83 Westy.
>Nicer name brand cassette head unit w/ removable face. The sound still
>stinks. Road noise and ill placement of the 4" speakers in the lower front
>doors by the install people. 8" Blue Thunder for low end under the rear
>bench in a box designed for placement behind a GM pick up truck seat, amp,
>and cross overs, capacitors on the 4"ers. Boston Accoustic 4" in the rear
>stock locations. Rear overhead does not have the A/C unit. It's the stock
>storage cabinet. Front 4" were placed lower than I would have prefered!
>Anything heavier than elevator Kenny G cocktail jazz poop sounds horrid. No
>A/C, so I have the windows down in the Arizona summers...
>
>Can anyone tell me if there is a difference between the front door panels of
>the early '80-early '83 Vanagons and the '83.5-'91's? An acquaintence of
>mine has a later model and was able to install the speakers where the stock
>ones were. The high dollar install clowns said that they couldn't find a
>shallow enough 4"-6" to place them in the stock location. Installed to allow
>for the catch-all tray on the drivers door. The existing Boston Acoustic 4"
>are overdriven by the time the sound is audible while driving.
>Suggestions?
>-ellis\
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