Date:         Fri, 8 Aug 97 06:40:35 UT
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         "Thomas Niksch" <cct_tom_niksch@msn.com>
Subject:      RE: VW / Audi / Porsche SUV? AutoWeek Article

Jim Davis wrote;

Hi all,
The 7/28/97 issue of AutoWeek has the following news article about a futureSUV 
from VW....I mean Audi.....I mean Porsche.....Read for yourself:

================================================
(quoted stuff, snipped)
=================================================

My comments:
First, it seems quite odd that Porsche would consider a vehicle in its lineup 
that would be sourced from VW, especially something as small & "economy 
minded" as a Golf derivitive. I would think that Porsche would be interested 
in competing with the likes of Range Rovers, Lexus LX450s, and the new 
Mercedes M-Class. Go figer...

Second, I wonder what all this talk of Golf based SUVs means to the potential 
of a VW van based SUV. I wonder if VW has the inclination to poke it's nose 
into two completely different ends of the SUV market at the same time. The 
photo on the Vanagon.com page appears to me to be a car based SUV. Itcertainlt 
ain't no van.


Regards,
Jim Davis
87 GL Syncro
88 GL Wolfsburg
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Jim,
a few comments from ol' Germany (sorry for beeing a bit long but I don't know 
what information has made it over the pond so far):
Let's focus on VW for the moment. All VW Off-Road vehicles were of military 
origin until the Vanagon syncro. Maybe you know the "Iltis" from a franchised 
version the Canadian Army used in the 1980s. 
A little later there was the forefather of the now called SUV Class: A Golf II 
syncro with a bodylift and some Off-Road features like rear fitted spare wheel 
bull bars etc. built by Steyr-Puch. The name was Golf Counrty and I am not 
sure if it ever was exported to overseas. It wasn't a big success - because 
people considered it looking odd. (In fact it didn't look very much more "odd" 
than a Honda CRV, probably it came at the wrong time)
Maybe you heard about Ferdinand Piech's plans to move to make VW up market and 
compete with Mercedes-Benz. Most major european auto manufacturers have 
launched (or will do so soon) some offers in the Off-Road or SUV section. VW 
used to sell a badge engineered Toyota Hi-Lux Pick Up named Taro until last 
winter. So they are the only german company not offering offroaders at the 
moment or in a few months. 
Mercedes did a tremendous lot of advertising on the new M-class (although it 
won't be on the market here before summer 1998) we have lots of TV spots about 
the Honda CRV etc. 

>From my point of view VW realized that they were "missing the train" and 
started to create romours with the 'Gute Fahrt' customer survey, some press 
articles and probably will continue that at all the major car exhebitions 
during fall and winter by presenting concepts.

So Jim, what you can read at:
http://www.vanagon.com/info/news/new_transporter_2001.html
is all we here have *officially* about the VW at the moment (and auto, motor 
sport is definitely the most serios automotive mag in europe)

All this seems just testing the reactions of the audience and the press, and 
then decide what shape of VW off-roader there will be.

Now, why should Vanagonists have to bother with that stuff ?

There is some coincidence:  All the AUDI / VW / Porsche 4x4 projects have been 
announced for around the turn of the millenium and there has to be definitely 
a new Transpoter around that time or even earlier. So let's put things 
together: (which is just my personal opinion - I don't use to play golf with 
Piech, but I've been in automotive engineering business for eight years now, 
mostly BMW not much for VW) - but consider yourself:

1. VW wants an Offroader to compete with the M-Class
2. AUDI wants a SUV as BMW, Volvo, Subaru, and lots of others compete in this 
segment
3. Porsche feels to need something 4x4 besides the sportscars and Mercedes 
cancelled the Porsche M-class
4. Porsche used to build the very sportive RS2 avant quattro for AUDI
5. VW needs a new Transporter "soon"
6. The T4 (EuroVan) shared componets with the old (-97) Passat
7. A new Transporter could share engines, transmissions and suspensions with 
the new Passat / A6
8. The new (+97) Passat is based on the A4 / A6 platform (longitudinal engine)
9. There is already a new Passat syncro (1997) A4 quattro (1996) and A6 
quattro (1998)
10. If you don't have a seperate chassis it makes sense to base an or-vehicle 
on something sturdy like a Transporter

=> AUDI can easily achive their SUV by giving the A6 quattro a body-lift an a 
little redsign
=> VW can use (reinforced) A6 quattro components for their Transporter based 
offroader in M-class size
=> VW can launch a 4x4 Transporter as a sucessor of the EuroVan syncro or 
better the Vanagon 16'' syncro
=> Porsche might use one of these (probably not the van) to base their 4x4 
projects on e.g. using A8 quattro components

So what did we have then: Four completly different vehicles sharing lots of 
components. These four would be fully complementary.
I guess that's what Piech (who is a nephew of Ferdinand Porsche btw.) seems to 
like while talking about "platform-strategy"

If there will be a fifth line - a 4x4 Camper - probably depends on our 
reactions. So we will do our best to convince them not to forget the private 
4x4 van users. What if all Vanagon syncro people in the world would do so as 
well ??? ....

Best regards 
Tom N.
Ig syncro 16''