Date:         Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:24:00 -0600
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Carl Hansen <Carl_Hansen@ATK.COM>
Subject:      Re: 85 VANAGON starters (lo

 SyncroBeast           re> 85 VANAGON starters (longish)
My SO's Scirocco has experienced a similar on and off for several years.

The first problem I diagnosed was that the primary battery connection to the
solenoid was loose.  The nut was tight on the outside, but the bolt/stud was
loose on the solenoid.  When I tightened it up, the problem went away.

The second time it started acting up, I had recently replaced the automatic
tranny, and you guessed it, the stud was loose again.

During this most recent analysis, I was reminded about a common VW/Bosch
electrical problem that takes several forms, that of low voltage to the
starter.  It goes like this:

1.  Sometimes it's poor grounds.  Check all ground straps, especially the big
fat ones.  I seem to recall that my SyncroBeast has one strap on the tranny
nose going to the body.  After a lot of years, I can remmeber lots of
corrosion at that point on several of previous busses and bugs I have owned in
the past.

So Check all ground straps.  Make sure the connections are good and the bolts
are tight.

2.  The power to your solenoid passes from the battery, to the dash area, to
the switch, to the dash area, to the back of the bus area, to the solenoid,
then thru the solenoid to ground via the case of the starter.  That's a lot of
connectors and wires to pass thru.

Some people take one of the little 1 inch cube relays (Make sure you use one
that can handle a bit of current, I'm not sure what the solenoid takes, but
I'd be looking for one that can handle 40 amps, I think.)  and let the switch
feed the cube relay.  Power to the cube can take a much shorter path from hot
battery to solenoid.  Put the cube some place safe where it doesn't get wet.

So the next time this happens, get out your voltmeter and make some
measurements.  Is the voltage to the solenoid +30 terminal low??  Do you have
a voltage drop between the starter frame and chassis??  I jury rigged a couple
of wires to appropriate points in the electricals, undernieth the car, so that
when the offending problem occurred, I wouldn't have to crawl under the darn
thing and try to get at the terminals on top the starter.  The second terminal
on the solenoid is hot when the solenoid is activated, it's a look at what
voltage is being applied to the starter by the solenoid, so I attached a wire
to that as well.  (Scirocco w/Automatic starter is buried under engine, above
drive shaft.)

I wish I could tell you what to expect, Jan's car hasn't acted up since I
added the wires, so I haven't looked at voltages yet.  I expect the starter
terminal from the switch to drop to ??10 volts, no less??, I expect the 2nd
terminal on the solenoid to show an intermittent 0 to +V, 0 to +V, because
Jan's problem lately seems to be one of the solenoid click, click, clicks and
doesn't start at all.  If the problem was per you comment and Jan's previous
problem, I'd expect a low voltage, less than 10 volts at both solenoid
terminals, rising to 10 to 11 or so when the starter finally kicked in and
started the car.  If it did the later, I'd expect a corroded connection
somewhere, that dropped a bit of voltage, and after a while, the current
kicked it's way thru for a better voltage.

Confused enough??  Give it a try, Usually the hardest part of any job is
starting it.

Ch
'89 Syncro Beast
'87 GTI 16V
'86 Scirocco (SO's, with a few extra wires, I'm too cheep to just buy a
starter, a solenoid, bigger ground straps, relays to transfer power, etc, etc,
untill I know what the roblem really is, and you know how it goes with these
damned intermittents - the SO gets po'd and just wants it too work, and you
can't fix something that isn't broke.  damn intermittents.)

****************Original message below:
Subject: 85 VANAGON starters

I am getting warning signals from my starter/solenoid.  Sometimes (not
always)the starter engages but cannot turn over the engine for a second or
two.  So far it has started each time.  Replaced the starter and solenoid at
70k miles I think for a similar problem but don't remember details.  Now at
145k miles.  The battery specific gravity still shows in the full charge range
in warm weather on all cells and is less than one year old.  Terminals all are
clean.

Anyone out there experience a similar situation?  Do Vanagon
starters/solenoids have about a 75k mile life before needing brushes or new
solenoid contacts?

Larry