Date:         Mon, 8 Dec 1997 13:38:01 -0700
Reply-To:     Jim & Lisa Arnott <jarnott@OREDNET.ORG>
Sender:       Vanagon mailing list <Vanagon@Gerry.SDSC.EDU>
From:         Jim & Lisa Arnott <jarnott@OREDNET.ORG>
Subject:      Coolant...
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

The List is BACK!!!!  Yeah!!!

Found this discussion about phosphate free coolant on an automotive
technician's list that I subscribe to.  Thought that the wet set might
be interested.

Subject: SHOP: Phosphate free antifreeze

 Hello everyone,
>
> I work at an independent shop that specializes in Jaguar. The factory
> bulletins demand that we use only phosphate free antifreeze. Since I read
> this in a factory tsb that had to do with problems with their aluminum heads
> I would assume that it has to do with how the coolant interacts with
> aluminum, but would like to have more info on the subject.
>
> Can anyone supply the details or perhaps a web site that would explain why
> phosphate free antifreeze is superior to the regular stuff? I will post the
> info when I have it.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ken Reid
> Jags Plus, Everett WA
> hogburgs@aol.com

 Hello everyone,

Here is what I found out about phosphate free antifreeze, first the straight
poop from the Prestone web page as to frequently asked questions:

Q: Does Prestone antifreeze/coolant contain phosphates?
A: Some European automobile manufacturers request that a phosphate-free
antifreeze be used in their vehicles. This issue is related to the extremely
high mineral content of the water in Europe. If you were to mix an antifreeze
that contained phosphates with the type of water they have in Europe, it may
produce deposits that can settle in the cooling system and promote corrosion.
     However, in North America we do not have this type of water
problem.  Typical North American coolants have contained phosphates (which is
part of the corrosion inhibitor package) for many years. Therefore, the
question of phosphates is a non-issue here in North America. Prestone(R)
antifreeze/coolant is completely safe for use in both foreign and domestic vehicles.
    For those consumers who would feel more comfortable using a
phosphate-free antifreeze, our Prestone(R) Extended Life 5/100 is
phosphate, silicate, and borate free. This coolant uses a special chemistry
and technology that extends the life of the corrosion inhibitor package so
that it lasts fo five years or 100,000 miles (whichever comes first), and is
safe for all cars and light trucks (old or new).

Special thanks to John Larson who had this to say:

Ken, VW has specified this stuff for 10/12 years. We`ve heard that they
use it to reduce electrolysis problems. From first hand knowledge, it really
works on the water cooled Vanagons, where the head studs run through the
coolant. Engines run for any length of time tend to have either broken studs
causing head gasket leaks, or they break when  you try to remove the head
nuts. Engines running the right stuff have little or no rust on the studs, and
correspondingly less pitting of the cylinder heads in the area contacted by
the coolant. Quaker State coolant is sold as Phosphate Free in our area, and
probably nation wide. We pay about 6 bucks a gallon wholesale. The VW agency
gets about 16.
Hope this helps. John Larson, West Coast Garage, Santa Maria, CA.

This was very interesting to me because Jaguar six cylinder engines have
exactly the same problems as the water cooled vanagons.