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Date:         Thu, 26 Mar 1998 20:32:17 -0600
Reply-To:     "Mark B. Magee" <condor2@FLASH.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <Vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         "Mark B. Magee" <condor2@FLASH.NET>
Organization: Condor Efficiency
Subject:      Re: Go Jump...Re: Warning! Audi and Mercedes wheels are
              dangerous! (long)
Comments: To: JordanVw <JordanVw@AOL.COM>
Comments: cc: Vanagon@VANAGON.COM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

JordanVw wrote:

> well, if the're "so dangerous" then what will happen? you have to use the > longer studs for the rear, and just use audi lug bolts for the front, and a > miniscule spacer up front on some wheels. what can happen? there is no way > for the wheels to fall off.. the van handles the same. have you ever run audi > or mercedes wheels on your Vanagon??? I have. i have done this conversion > twice, and am about to do it again, to put some 15" audi turbo wheels on my > '84. > > dont complain about something if you havent tried it yourself to see how it > really works.. > > let me reiterate, people... there is NOTHING unsafe about running audi turbo > or mercedes wheels on your vanagon if you use the proper lug nuts. these are > the same wheels used on the turbo quattro... they've been run thru all kind of > off-road road rallies... they are VERY strong wheels.. > > chris

Chris, Volks,I have been studying this topic for some time as I as well want larger wheels. I must say in defense of Michael Sullivans post on the geometry issues, to me the case he presented on geometry was very compelling. Irrespective of how things can "feel" Chris, if the geometry of the vehicle has been changed on how it plants itself on the ground, even a few millimeters, the handling characteristics can be greatly altered. The strength of the wheel is not the issue, and I'll bet those road rallies you are referencing we not conducted in a Vanagon, but rather in (on) the vehicles those wheels were designed for.

I think we all know the Vanagon is not the best vehicle in a tough crosswind, I would not want to do anything to exacerbate this characteristic. If Audi or MB wheels -decrease- the effective wheelbase, -and they do-, this can only make this issue worse and as Michael said, even dangerous. Cornering as well.

Remember, the "teknokraut" engineers in the Black Forest spent a few days or better figuring the best wheel offset for the best overall geometry for the Vanagon under standard conditions. Changing this in essence takes the vehicle out of the known standards of handling that the VW boys put the Vanagon through to determine it a "safe" handling vehicle under foreseeable conditions. There is a very good reason for the offset on the wheels that they chose.

-I'll- reiterate, a few mm changes in offset -will- change the geometry and handling of the vehicle noticeably.

Can you use other offsets for wheels safely? I would say, personally and non-engineeringly (is that a word?) that the only offset I would personally select would be one that is -greater- or "wider" than original. This would in essence give the vehicle a wider "stance" and (possibly) greater stability, but again you will run into the area of the unknown. But in the case of wider off-set, this unknown area would be erring on the side of known standards of making vehicles handle better, that is: lower/wider handles better than higher/skinnier vehicles.

Thanks Michael Sullivan for that very good data you provided, it was eye opening and irrefutable IMHO.

My $.02, however this $.02 has cost me considerably as I am ceasing my search for MB/Audi wheels, and are less expensive apparently than Winkler or other properly designed wheels. Anyone know of -wider- offset wheels that will work on our Vanagons? ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> Shalom Mark B. Magee 82 Diesel Westy 87GL 96 Suzuki 4WD Sport Kemah TX USA John 14:6


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