Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 10:16:16 -0500
Reply-To: MICHAEL G BENTHIN <TVCR50A@PRODIGY.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <Vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: MICHAEL G BENTHIN <TVCR50A@PRODIGY.COM>
Subject: Re: Copyrights
Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII
(I'm sending this to Bob Hoover, the Type2 list, and coyote@vanagon.com,
plus vanagon list:,
since it touches on what can happen to what we write to the list:)
I can see both sides of the issue Bob Hoover brought up regarding
copyrights to our list posts- yes, a private letter to me from Bill Clinton
I can publish at will, because it is MINE. But let's say Clinton writes to
the editor of a newspaper- they publish it.......I assume I can't publish
that letter in my biography of Clinton without their permission, even
though they printed it for all? Clinton can't sue me, because he gave it
to the paper; it is theirs. And they have a right to a fee or cut of
profits of such a biography? An e-mail list may seem harder to define- I
can see Coyote's side-what comes to my PRIVATE e-mailbox I can diseminate
posts to me at will? Thus if it comes from a listserver as private mail to
me, I could claim I can make it public as I see fit? Can a listserver
claim it comes to him FIRST, privately, and thus he owns it (like the
newspaper editor)? The implication is that if you send it to a list, you
are giving it to the server to make it public, including it being archived
to a web site? However, I can see not having the right to access a
(public) web archive and publish contents NOT sent to me personally,
implying ownership of that information by the server/archiver? Indeed,
the listowners are saying that now for their received posts and compiled
web material-( will they next "charge" for access to the site info?).
Technically, then, the listserver is sending out private mail to HIM/HER,
and owns those posts? Couldn't they then publish those posts? By publish
I mean SELL copies, make profit- is that not what copyright protects? Now,
if someone wants wants to SELL a CD of list posts, does it matter if they
are a listee or a listserver? It should have been spelled out in list
subscription instructions whether all sent to the listerver is indeed HIS
to do with as seen fit. I can see the end of meaningful posts or even a
list here....Hoover asking Coyote to delete his posts from publication is
within his rights, if Coyote were just another list member. But if Coyote
is the listserver, he could claim he received PRIVATE posts to him and can
do what he wants with them?
Two examples come to mind- I play in a band that plays public concerts.
If it is a non-profit organization, we can play copyrighted music if we
sell no tickets, but we can ask for "donations" to buying more music and
paying the conductor. When I posted a thread "You have ADD when......"
to the ADD BB on Compuserve, they (C-serve) elected to include it in a
published book on ADD, but DID ask me via e-mail ahead of time, and offered
a free copy of the book to me. This is what Coyote should have done for
all of us from Hoover's interpretation. I presume the copyright law
has/will address such internet problems. If Coyote plans to make NO profit
but disseminate list posts at cost to other list members, or donate
proceeds to maintaining the list, then I am not sure what Hoover's rights
are in stopping him. "Maintaining the list" could include a salary to the
server. Since the list is for private subscribers, they could vote on such
an issue? . It seems that Hoover's spirit is not to have others profit
by his "donated" wisdom.....and from that viewpoint we all have the right
to tell Coyote to stop or sue for our cut of profit if we are quoted! MB
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