Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:46:05 -0500
Reply-To: Derek Drew <drew@INTERPORT.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: Derek Drew <drew@INTERPORT.NET>
Subject: Re: I'm getting taller Syncro Springs
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19981106230432.006af810@mail.abccom.bc.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
As I have said previously, I believe a maximum lift of 5cm is
indicated, and I prefer 4.5cm to provide a margin of error. This
4.5cm would be for a a 5,000lb load, so taking off the extra weight
at the left rear corner, one would ask the spring man to provide an
extra 4.5cm at 1,200 lbs. of force.
I have extensive postings on this subject in the archives. It would
take a stout heart to excavate them, however.
The reason not to go with the block inbetween the body and the
spring are as David said issues of safety but also that the block
method either decreases suspension travel or causes a possible need
for a lengthened axel, depending on how you do it. There is
insufficient suspension travel up in front there to take a 5cm hit
is my current analysis. It is possible somebody could show that this
is not true.
I believe a little stiffer than our current spring is indicated, but
not very much stiffer because then off road performance would
suffer.
John Anderson has clever engineering behind a method for obtaining
the lift that does not involve buying new springs, but he is busy in
medical school. He was going to drop by here last weekend and show
me his drawings but wasn't able to make it. (Or maybe he called and
I didn't answer the phone.)
As for having new springs made, there is an art form to doing this,
and you can have cheap springs and expensive springs. Well made
springs are typically cold formed and then heat treated until the
springs are red hot to realign the molecules. Then, the springs are
shot peened to stress relieve them. They are then tempered again.
Finally, the springs are put in a press and fully compresssed,
giving them their "sets." A nice finish is phosphaste treating and
powder coating. I do know know whether David's man proposes to
undertake these steps or simply wind up a wire.
The Seikel 16" springs (search the archives on this name) front
springs are about $135 each, but their purpose seems to be extra
stiffness more than height, although their extra stiffness seems to
yield extra height nonetheless. The important data point from Peter
Seikel is that he said the factory springs are 75 kilos per 1cm
spring rate whereas his special heavy duty springs are 140 kilos per
1 cm. Accordingly, in having a new set of springs made up for the
syncro, I would be tempted to ask the spring man to confirm the 75
kilos per 1cm spring rate, and if it is correct, then ask him to
make the new springs about 90 or 95 kilos per 1cm to get some extra
stiffness without going to a silly 140 figure.
It had been suggested to me that potential independent suppliers to
have springs made included Young Spring in Rutland, Vermont; Moog,
the supplier to NAPA; National Spring in San Diego/El Cajon,
California; Coil Spring Specialties in St. Marys, Kansas; Custom
Suspension Springs in Vacaville, Ca.; among others.
Jim Davis may prove us all dopes for having new springs made as he
simply streatched his out and thereby obtained the additional lift.
He is supposed to take a measurement for us to see if after all
these many months his springs have sagged again. How about it Jim?.
David's query as to whether anyone else wants new springs made is
seductive and I am seduced into ejaculating "Count me in!" but it
would seem wise to make sure the other considerations in this email
have been addressed, especially the Jim Davis experiment, and the
measurements of exact lift, exact spring rate, and spring quality.
At 11:04 PM 11/6/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Volks,
>
>The insurance runs out on my Syncro Double Cab in a few days and I
will be
>doing some p.m. on it before winter really hits hard. One of the
things I
>will be doing is sending my front springs to a company to get them
analysed
>and some new taller ones made up. Cost is about $200 US plus
shipping for
>a pair of springs. Now this brings me to a few questions for the
group.
>
>- Is anyone interested in a set of springs?
>
>If so:
>
>- How much lift would you want?
>
>The most common measurement in the survey that I did is 47.5cm
(from the
>wheel center to the fender lip) static and 55.5cm fully extended.
This
>leaves me to think that a static height of 51 or 52 cm would be
about the
>max that one could do. This translates into a 3 to 4cm lift (1
1/4" to 1
>1/2") to leave some travel in the front suspension.
>
>- Should the rate remain stock or should they be stiffer?
>
>Any other considerations I should look into?
>
>
>
>-- David Marshall --
>-- 78 1.8L VW Rabbit, 80 2.0L VW Caddy, 87 Audi 5KSQ --
>-- 85 VW Cabriolet, 88 2.0L VW Syncro 16" Double Cab --
>-- Volkswagen Homepage http://www.volkswagen.org --
>-- Volkswagen/Audi Parts http://parts.volkswagen.org --
>-- mailto:david@volkswagen.org - Quesnel, BC, Canada --
>
________________________________________________________
Derek Drew New York, NY & Washington,
DC
drew@interport.net
'90 Syncro Westfalia...
...seen off-road at http://www.tiu.net/~des/vw/drew/index.html
Also seen at: http://www.pipeline.com/~tforhan/swrange.htm
http://4wd.sofcom.com/VW/snow.html
http://www.pipeline.com/~tforhan/swmassn.htm
http://4wd.sofcom.com/VW/Campers/Campers.html
Note: most valuable Vanagon sites on the planet (for owners)
are:
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?S1=vanagon
ftp://gerry.vanagon.com/pub/
