Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 14:17:27 -0800
Reply-To: Steve <sxs@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: Steve <sxs@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Is it me or is it my Westy?--long
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
David, i appreciate, but loathe your 2 cents... Law enforcement may have a job
to do, but that job does not mean they have to break the law, and no
professional law enforcement officer will conduct themselves that way...Contrary
to what you suggest, it is NOT routine to conduct illegal searches. I have law
enforcement experience, too. I prosecuted many cases involving alleged illegal
searches for the phila DA's office. The police officers were my witnesses in
those cases and it was my job to defend the legality of the search. A search
like you describe where there is no probable cause would never get past a
judge. In fact, no honest judge would issue a warrant under such circumstances
unless the cop were willing to lie under oath to fabricate probable cause. The
cops know this and thus unless they are corrupt or don't care (or really believe
you are involved in criminal conduct) will not waste everyone's time if you
politely and respectrfully decline his request. Ask him why he wants to do the
search and whether there is any basis for believeing you have broken the law.
If he can articulate some reasonable basis, then allow it, but if he
can't...then i say decline. If you do it right, he will be less suspicious and
also less inclined to proceed with an illegal search. This is not a police
state...but it will be if no one offers any resistance. This is also not a
"light" topic. Read some of the seminal supreme court decisions on illegal
searches and the reasons the founders adopted the fourth amendment for some
background on why a simple illegal traffic stop search IS a big deal. You can
laugh, but those little incidents and how they are handled have tremendous
implications. The vanagon content here is that we are perhaps targeted because
of stereotypes about who drives vanagons...something the 4th amendment abhors.
Drivers should know their rights and options.
enjoy the weekend!
steve
David Chasteen wrote:
> My 2 cents. After being involved in and with law enforcement for many
> years, a refusal of a search request will most likely result in a warrant to
> search being obtained from your local red-neck magistrate and you spending
> many hours on the side of the road while they literally rip your van apart.
> If you have nothing to hide, let the cop search. Its easy to blame law
> enforcement for being too harsh, but they have a job to do too.
>
> I relate to the comment about the middle-aged guy with a goatee. That's me
> to a tee, deadhead sticker included. Of course driving a "hippie van"
> doesn't help either.
>
> Anyway, lighten up. If you were in a hurry, you wouldn't be driving a
> Vanagon!
>
> Chaz
> '82 Westy "Peewee"
> Brownfield, Texas
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@vanagon.com]On Behalf Of
> Steve
> Sent: Friday, November 13, 1998 1:33 PM
> To: vanagon@VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Is it me or is it my Westy?--long
>
> This story disturbs me. I won't get up on my soapbox and wax eloquently
> about the constitution, freedom and all the lives lost to win and maintain
> it. I will say that if we don't demand it and don't require it and we
> simply allow it to be taken away...it will be taken away. So please,
> don't let the police search you unless there is some obvious reason for
> them to do so. The request can be politely declined. I assure you that
> the cop wouldn't want to be searched without cause either, and he knows he
> that by law...under the 4th amendment to the United States Constitution,
> he can't without cause. He is supposed to uphold the law, not undermine
> or break it. Require that he obey the law, too. It's your law, not his.
> steve
>
> John Koloen wrote:
>
> > I had an unusual experience this week while driving my '87 Westy from
> > Texas to Wisconsin. It happened in the Sooner state. Not long after
> > passing the Texas-Oklahoma border on I-35 a state trooper appeared in
> > my rearview. He followed me for a few miles, came alongside, then went
> > on his way. I thought it odd but continued. About two miles from the
> > Oklahoma-Kansas border the trooper reappeared in my rearview. This
> > time he turned on his lights and pulled me over.
> > He came up to the driver's side window claiming that I had driven over
> > the right-side white line three times. Of course, I knew I hadn't. It
> > was about 4 p.m. He suggested I must have been tired. He asked for my
> > license and insurance card, and then we went to his car where he wrote
> > out a "warning" ticket. A warning to not do something I didn't do?
> > Then he got to his real intentions. After giving me the warning he
> > asked if I was carrying contraband. I said no. Then he asked if I
> > would allow him to search my vehicle. Ah, ha! Of course, I let him do
> > it. And, of course, there was no contraband.
> > What I figure is that he was near the end of his shift and needed a
> > bust and thought a middle-aged guy with a goattee driving a VW van had
> > to be up to something. Or, he was a fan of Oklahoma or Oklahoma State
> > and didn't like it that the University of Texas beat both teams. The
> > funniest thing was that when he pulled away and headed for the nearest
> > exit ramp his rear tire crossed the right-side line twice in less than
> > half a mile. Perhaps he was just tired.
> > Anybody else have similar experience in a VW? I'm sure if I was in my
> > pickup I would never have caught his attention. I'm thinking about
> > putting on a bumper sticker that says "No contraband inside," or "I'm
> > not a drug smuggler." -- John
| 
