Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 20:55:04 +0000
Reply-To: Eric Pickering <mv_54@OMALP1.OMERESA.OHIO.GOV>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: Eric Pickering <mv_54@OMALP1.OMERESA.OHIO.GOV>
Subject: Open Container Responses
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Hi all,
Well, here is a collection of the repsonses I got since many seemed
interested. My question arose after I cleaned out my Westy, found a
half empty (or half full :-) ) bottle of whisky I had forgotten about,
and realized I had been driving around with it for months. Yes it was in
a closet but I do know there are officers out there that like to push
things and search w/o reason (not all of them, just the ones that would
pull me over). It seems it can be risky just about anywhere although it
shouldn't be. I think I'll try to not keep stuff in there and if I do
maybe I'll stuff it up in the hole in the engine compartment. Enjoy!
ERic
I'm surely no cop, but in nearby WV, a broken seal on a bottle equals an
open container. That is a generally good way to think about it, because
for all the po-po knows, you could be hitting the JD out on the
expressway and keeping it cool in the fridge.
Good idea: have a stiff cup-a-joe, walk it off, sober up, and don't
screw up driving. Don't give the popoman reason to search the van in the
first place. You should be cool. :-D
Sam
I believe that if your are parked in a location where you can say you
are using your Westy as a home, it falls under the law that pertains
to homes. But if you are just parked on a street, or driving, or in a
circumstance where it would be classified as a vehicle, you are
subject to motor vehicle laws. To avoid problems, try to always stay
prudently and obviously on the safe side of any gray judgment area
between there different uses. In most states your Westy is classified
as a "Motorhome." As as such, if you live in it for the required
number of days per year to comply with IRS rules, you could deduct
interest payments on it just as you could for another home.
There will be an unending stream of ignorant police who are uninformed
about your rights as a home owner when you are using your Westy as a
home. So the best plan is to avoid their unfair and too often
ignorant treatment. They deal with really nasty people every day, so
they develop abrasive ways as a survival mechanism. That doesn't
forgive them, but it helps to understand how they got that way.
All the best to you,
John
in the state of alabama, the laws were toughened up a while back. ANY
opened
or open (opened means the seal is broken) bottle or container is prima
facia
evidence of driving under the influence, EVEN if you are sitting still
in
a parking lot with the ignition switched OFF. fer real.
now, i believe there are provisions for "motor homes" and "recreational
vehicles" ... to let the rich-ass campaign-donating winnebago crowd off
the
hook at football games, as long as the container is "stored" in a
kitchen
cabinet or refrigerator. however ... that means you have to get your
Westy
registered as a "motor home", and not a "passenger van". and i'm NOT
sure
exactly what the provisions entail. :(
but if the cop is prissy and wants to be a prick, and you are stopped,
engine off, engine cold from sitting overnight, and you have ONE opened
container of alcoholic beverage ANYwhere inside the bus, he can write
your
ass up and take you off to jail.
yes, it's a stupid interpretation of the law, but until a judge hears
about
it, you're gonna be booked and kept overnight in the slammer.
and no, it hasn't made much of a difference in the drunk-driving wrecks
and
deaths ... only in the harassment of people who get stopped for
something
else. :(
so if you drive through the state of alabama, do NOT give the cop any
reason
to stop you. state troopers are not nearly so bad as the local city
cops, who
depend on the tickets for revenue!!!! and lots of small towns run speed
traps,
where the speed limit drops from 55 mph to 25 mph in about 200 FEET.
joel
A law officer would have to have probable
cause to search your vehicle, such as alcohol
on your breath or your smelling like MJ ,
etc. If you have not drunk anything before
driving, you should not have a problem as long
as the alcohol is closed/capped and stored out
of reach/sight of the driver/passengers. This
is no different than having a half empty
bottle of wine in a bag in the back seat or
trunk area. If you have not been drinking
then you have nothing to worry about
(breathalyzer would be neg.). Best advice is
not to drink and drive-drink and sleep in your
van/westy!
Also word of warning-I heard that in Ontario,
CA., police can search your car without
probable cause. Let me know if I'm wrong.
AND... does it make any difference whether or not the van is registered
as a motorhome or passenger car?
I've looked into this a bit and couldn't find any definitive answers.
I'm betting it varies greatly between states. Probably the best place to
ask about such laws would be an RV group or dealership. I'm sure many RV
people have had to deal with this before.
I guess the answer depends on whether the law defines the Westfalia as a
Camper or Mobil home!!
I am no lawyer, but in California, the law on open containers prohibits
any driver or passenger in a "moving vehicle" from drinking while the
vehicle is moving. Also, it is a violation of the law to store any
alcoholic beverage which is opened or has a broken seal or partially
empty in the same contiguous areas occupied by the driver. (ie. storing
opened container in the trunk is ok) And of course the kicker here is
that this paragraph of the law do not apply to the "living quarters" of
a camper or motor home. So convince the CHP your Westy is a motor
home! but then you'll have to pay the motor home fee rate when you go
to a camp site.. got to be consistent about this you know!!
Many many years ago, when I rented a winnebego motor home to tour the
country, I was given a pamphlet by the rental company explaining the
importance of keeping all open alcohol containers in the designated
"kitchen cabinets" in the "living quarter" of the dumb bus..being an FOB
at that time, it made absolutely no sense to me...
Yau-Man Chan
I'm not a lawyer, but know that this law varies from state to state.
Some
states are fairly relaxed, (Driver cannot currently be drinking from a
booze bottle when the officer approaches the window). Others are more
strict, like North Carolina, where you cannot even mention the name of
an
alcoholic beverage while within 50 feet of a motor vehicle.
Actually, last time I checked, NC allowed open containers in a vehicle,
but
they could not be in reach or able to be passed to the driver, or
something
like that...which basically meant, unless you drive a cement mixer and
insist on your drinking passengers ride in the tumbler, you could be in
trouble.
Check with your DMV, and (from someone who almost met St. Pete 'cuz of a
drunk driver), don't even think about drinking and driving. Thanks. :)
G. Matthew Bulley
Yes, the State you are in will matter, as each State has its own laws.
In Indiana:
There is no distinction between vans, cars, R.V.s, etc.
Open containers are permissible in Indiana so long as the driver has a
less
than 0.04 BAC (0.10 BAC is limit for operating while intoxicated, but
most
states have now gone to 0.08).
It is NEVER permissible for the driver to drink. (This law is only
several
years old--until about 1995, it was perfectly legal for the driver to
drink
while driving, so long as the driver was not drunk.)
Again, there is no prohibition against an open container (even passenger
drinking is legal), if the driver is less than 0.04.
There is really no distinction between an open container in a closet or
a
passenger's hand.
I am certain that Ohio is much more strict, but I do not know the exact
law.
Additional Indiana insight:
Indiana was very slow to enact an open container law because many
legislators
in Indianapolis like to travel to Bloomington to watch IU football and
basketball. Every time an open container law was proposed, attempts
were made
to amend the law to exempt 8 passenger vans, ect., so that "party vans"
en
route to IU games would be legal. The proposed laws would eventually
fail.
In response to this, many cities, towns or counties enacted their own
ordinances against open containers. Finally, the legislators reached
the
compromise that passenger drinking was ok, so long as the driver was
clearly
sober. Every year new laws are proposed which would tighten the open
container law, and /or lower the legal limit to 0.08 BAC. So far, they
have
been unsuccessful.
