Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 11:10:54 -0500
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes57@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <dhaynes57@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Flywheel, crankshaft shims,
and seal - was; oil leak between eng & trans
There are only three conditions that can cause the shims to get chewed up.
These are lack of lubrication,(no oil or excessive heat), improper
adjustment, or defective clutch pressure plate putting excessive thrust on
the flywheel when operating the clutch. The bad news is that the bearing
and the case is probably damaged.
There are two styles of main thrust bearing used in Vanagon engines. The
most common is the one piece that has both thrust surfaces as part of the
bearing. Starting in '86, the Syncro's started getting engines with a three
piece bearing. This bearing consists of the bearing sleeve and two separate
thrust plates, one on each side. Three shims are still used and there is an
additional retainer that holds the shims in position until the fly wheel is
installed, (no real value).
If you have the one piece bearing, you need to check carefully if there is
any bearing movement. Move the crank back an forth and rotate it. Also try
turning the bearing with a punch. If the bearing moves at all, the bearing
and case is shot and will need repair. The case will need to be align-bored
and the thrust surface cut to accept an over size bearing. with an under
size thrust. If you have the crank cut, you will need a bearing set to
accommodate this two. These bearings are hard to find.
If you have the three piece bearing, remove the thrust plate and check the
case for any sign of the case be pounded by the bearing. With this design
you may be able to re-shim the flywheel to compensate. You should also try
to determine if the main sleeve is tight or not. This will be difficult.
Considering the mileage and the high possibility of the case being shot, I
would start looking for another engine. Good luck with repairing yours if
you go that route.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Martin <Noganav@AOL.COM>
To: vanagon@VANAGON.COM <vanagon@VANAGON.COM>
Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: Flywheel, crankshaft shims, and seal - was; oil leak between
eng & trans
>For those who have just joined this thread;
>
>My '87 Vanagon Syncro (175K) developed a major oil leak coming from between
>the engine and transmission. The oil leak started out rather small and
grew
>into a flood over a three day time period. Yesterday I removed the engine
and
>upon separating it from the transmission about a quart or so of oil gushed
>onto the carport floor. After cleaning up the mess and I began to look
over
>the general condition of my engine. (It looks so small sitting on the
floor
>of the carport as opposed to being stuffed into the engine compartment.)
The
>first thing I noticed was the surprising amount of crankshaft end play. By
>eye, it looked like the flywheel, when pulled and pushed back and forth,
moved
>in and out a 1/4 inch! It was dark and cold so I thought I would call it a
>night and regroup in the morning with my brother and his dial gauge.
>That brings us to today.
>First on the list was to measure the actual end play of the crankshaft. It
>was not 1/4 inch as I feared but 40/1000 or .0040 . A considerable amount
and
>a bad sign but not as bad as I originally thought. My brother didn't like
the
>way things were going and started talking about engine rebuild costs. I
say
>let's pull the flywheel and have a closer look.
>I don't have a fancy flywheel locking tool so to hold the flywheel still
when
>loosening the flywheel bolts we used a 3/4 x 3/4 x 36" piece of angle iron.
>We drilled two holes in it that correspond with two of the pressure plate
>mounting bolt holes. Using the same bolts that hold the pressure plate to
>the flywheel, we then attached the angle iron directly to the flywheel,
like a
>lever or a crude handle. Next I held the angle iron in one hand and the
>socket wrench with an Allen head socket in the other and push and pulled
then
>against each other. It worked great! I spent $6.00 on the angle iron at
>Coast to Coast Hardware. After loosening all then removing all of the
>flywheel bolts the flywheel came off with very little effort.
>Now the crankshaft oil seal, shims, needle bearing, and crankshaft bearing
can
>be seen. The seal looked intact but the shims are shredded to pieces. I
>tried removing the oil seal with a seal prying tool but it is so brittle
that
>it just keeps breaking the outside edge. I decide to use a small hammer
and a
>small screwdriver to get under the outside edge of the seal. Then by
tapping
>gently on the handle of the screwdriver I was able to carefully cut the
edge
>of the seal with the straight blade of the screwdriver. I then used
>needlenose pliers to get hold of one side of the now split seal and pull it
>out. I was very careful not to gouge or score case where the seal seals.
>As I wrote earlier, two of the three shims are shredded and the thrust
washer
>is worn unevenly. Furthermore, upon closer inspection, there is no felt
>washer to be found and the crankshaft side of the flywheel has been damaged
>beyond reuse. With .0040 of end play on the crankshaft, there must have
been
>a whole of bumping and grinding going on in there. It seems likely that
the
>broken pieces shims began cutting into the seal until it failed completely
>causing all that 20-50wt to flow into the clutch housing then onto the
exhaust
>system and the ground.
>
>Pages 13.39 to 13.41 of the Bentley Manual show the parts and pieces I have
>been working on.
>
>Monday I begin my quest for a new flywheel, shims, and thrust washer.
Please
>note that I will also be replacing the crankshaft oil seal, o-ring, needle
>bearing, and felt washer. It was running great so I'm hoping that by
putting
>it all back together correctly with new parts will buy me some more miles
>before the inevitable engine rebuild.
>
>Has anyone had this experience with shredded shims and damaged flywheel?
>
>Thanks for staying with this post this far,
>
>Andrew
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