Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 19:22:25 EST
Reply-To: Noganav@AOL.COM
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Andrew Martin <Noganav@AOL.COM>
Subject: Flywheel, shims, seals, (long)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Interested Parties,
The following are excerpts from messages I wrote to individual list members to
an attempt to assist with information regarding the task of shimming for
correct crankshaft endplay, replacing the crankshaft oil seal, O-ring,
flywheel, needle bearing, felt ring and spacer. I am sending this info to the
Vanagon List to possibly assist another Listmember and to complete the thread
I started on the subject. I'm sure I left something out so please p-mail me
if what I have written doesn't make sense.
Since completing this job I have driven my van about 1000 miles without any
problems.
I am repairing an '87 Vanagon Syncro but all stock US Vanagons should be the
same in this area. I've been told that the Syncro uses a 3 piece main bearing
and the 2WD uses a 1 piece main bearing but that info is not directly relevant
to this job.
NOTE: The listmember names have been removed to protect the innocent.
Also, my brother, Dana K. Martin, deserves more credit for proper completion
of this project than the following implies. I would not have been able to do
this job without his considerable knowledge and experience.
>Dear Innocent Listmember,
>
>Sorry to hear about your trouble. It's not difficult job but I was glad to
>have my brother around for extra muscle and to double check my addition for
>the correct shim calculations.
>I'll try to explain what we did and how we did it. I know you have a Syncro
>Westy but I don't know what your mechanical background is. If what I write
>doesn't make sense let me know and I'll try again. If it's boring I can
>adjust for that too!
>
>First I removed the engine. Innocent Listmember thought it would be easier
to
>remove the tranny instead, and he is correct, but I found that having the
>engine on the carport floor where we could easily see what we were doing and
>be able to work with the flywheel from a kneeling position was great. Also,
>we are both 6' and 200lbs so both being under the van at the same time is a
>squeeze. To us, it was worth the 3 1/2 hours to remove the engine. I also
>changed all my fuel hoses while the engine was on the floor. The hardest
part
>of that was getting the old clamps and hose off.
>
>Remove 6 bolts holding clutch pressure plate and disc. If the disc is as oil
>soaked as mine was, toss it and get a new one. A couple of listees suggested
>soaking the disc in solvents for a few days but I didn't want to chance it.
I
>did clean the pressure plate first with kerosene then brake cleaner and
reused
>it without any problems.
>
>Removed the 5 Allen head bolts holding flywheel to end of crankshaft. My
>previous post detailed how I held the flywheel still when loosening (and
later
>retightening) the bolts. This stupid AOL e-mail (not innocent) program
doesn't allow me to
>save my sent mail easily so if you need more info on this let me know.
>Remove flywheel. I used a rubber hammer to gently tap on the edges in a
>circular pattern until it was loose, then grasped firmly with both hand and
>pull!
>Remove oil seal. I tried to use a tool that is made for this purpose. It's
>about 16" long with one end that's shaped like a foot (human foot). On past
>projects, I have used this tool carefully and gotten seals out without
>damaging them. My seal was so old and brittle that the seal tool didn't
work.
>I ended up cutting the seal sideways with the blade of a small screwdriver
and
>then pulling it out in pieces with needle nose pliers. Removing it totally
>destroyed it. Parts of the old seal were still stuck to the housing and had
>to be removed with a razor knife. I was very careful not to gouge the
housing
>and finished the removal job with a Scotch Brite pad to polish the sealing
>surface.
>Now the shims, or what is left of them in my case. They are behind the oil
>seal and should just about fall out with the seal removed. There should be a
>total of 5 separate pieces. See page 13.41 of Bentley. The parts that were
>still whole in my van were so badly scored I tossed them.
>With the shims out you can now see the outside of the crankshaft bearing.
>Innocent Listmember recommended checking that the bearing race is still tight
in the
>case. I used a very small punch and hammer to see if it was loose. I held
>the punch at an angle on the bearing race tapping it lightly to try to make
it
>spin. Mine sure seemed like it was tight. If it is loose your screwed.
>Rebuild time. And to reuse the case, it will have to be machined to accept a
>new bearing with a larger outside diameter. Innocent Listmember made it
sound like it was
>a pita to fix.
>Remove needle bearing. It's in the center of the crankshaft. I used a small
>dent puller fitted with a small bolt and a filed down flat washer that when
>turned sideways on the bolt, fit inside then behind the needle bearing. A
>couple of firm whacks of the side hammer and it was out.
>
>I cleaned everything real well first using kerosene then brake cleaner. I
>finalized the cleaning by blowing everything compressed air.
>
>Putting it all back together!
>
>For the correct crankshaft end play, I followed the instruction in the
Bentley
>Manual. You will need a dial indicator and a pencil to write down the
>readings. The instructions are very easy to follow but I'll write some
things
>that they don't tell you.
>
>I installed the new needle bearing first. It's easy to work on without the
>shims and seal installed. I used a socket wrench socket the same diameter as
>a drift. By tapping straight and lightly it should go in pretty easy. I
>installed it flush with the end of the flywheel. Don't forget to grease it.
>I used CV grease (MoS2).
>
>With that out of the way it's time to shim.
>
>Follow the instructions!
>Remember.....Don't install the oil seal and flywheel O-ring until you are
>ready for final assembly!
>
>I used a couple of small dabs of wheel bearing grease on both sides of thrust
>washer and shims to stick them together and keep them in place while
>installing the flywheel. They kept falling out on the first couple of tries
>to install the flywheel for the initial endplay measurements.
>I also found that when installing the flywheel both for measuring the end
play
>and final assembly, pounding it with a hammer shook loose the shims. To
>prevent this I got the flywheel lined up with the drift pin and then turned
in
>the Allan bolts to slowly draw the flywheel into the shims and crankshaft.
>About a half a turn on each bolt in circular pattern until it stops. To be
>100% accurate I torque the bolts to 80 lbs each time I checked the endplay.
I
>also disassembled and re assembled the whole thing one final time and
measured
>the end play twice before the final assembly with the oil seal and O-ring.
>Also each time I took a measurement, I turned the flywheel 180 degrees and
>took another measurement. It took about 2 1/2 hours of assembly, measuring,
>disassembly, reassembly, measuring, disassembly, etc., etc., etc.
>
>When I started this project I had 40/1000 of end play. New it should be
>3/1000 to 5/1000. My final end play was exactly 4/1000.
>
>I had to replace my flywheel. The side that goes toward the crankshaft was
so
>badly damaged by the loose shims and thrust washer that they wouldn't even
>give me a core for it. Check yours carefully. If you aren't sure of it's
>condition replace it!
>
>I didn't find a felt ring in the center of my old flywheel as shown on page
>13.37 of the Bentley. I did find what they show as a spacer in the center of
>the flywheel. I wasn't able to get a new one from the dealer so reused the
>old one.
>
>I hope this helps. Its late so I can't be sure what I wrote makes sense. I
>check my mail twice a day so if I can assist let me know!
This is the second part of this final post. I am responding to questions the
listmember sent after my initial message to him.
<< Andrew,
Thanks for the part numbers. Mine is 85 non-Synchro so I'll confirm.
I don't know where I can get a spacer if VW doesn't carry them! I
couldn't find your archive message either, it must have been when the
ONELIST was operating over Christmas. >>
<<Innocent Listmember,
Good idea to confirm part numbers although I'm nearly certain they are the
same. My VW Parts Dealer will freely give me any numbers I ask for. Best to
go down there and get to know them!! Armed with the correct numbers you can
try any VW parts place like The Bus Depot, Volks-Motorsports, or The Old Volks
Home. I purchased one of each size (thickness) from the VW Dealer because
they are only 3.00 each. I had to replace all the parts in there because the
excessive crankshaft endplay hammered the shims to pieces and destroyed the
flywheel. I still have 5 or 6 new shims I didn't use. They are on the
thicker side of the list. If you think you can use them let me know.>>
<>
<<<Remember! Do not install the crankshaft oil seal, O-ring, and felt washer
until you have calculated and correctly adjusted the crankshaft end play with
a dial gauge and the necessary shims. Follow the procedure in the Bentley!!!!
Yes, the O-ring fits in the groove inside the raised section of the flywheel
(engine side). Be sure to lube lightly it so it slides smoothly over the end
of the crankshaft.
The felt washer and the spacer ARE thin. The felt washer fits in the center
hole of the flywheel and when the flywheel is installed, rests up against the
needle bearing. The spacer also fits in the center hole of the flywheel and
may keep the felt washer in place. It is a tight fit and has a slight lip on
it that should be installed (with drift and hammer) flush with the edge of the
center hole. Keep in mind that the felt ring and the spacer are installed
after everything else is permanently in place. The mainshaft of the
transmission will fit through the flywheel center hole with the felt ring and
spacer in place. After it was installed, I put a very small amount of light
oil on the felt ring and the main shaft to make everything slide easier.>>>
<<My flywheel is smooth but discolored. Do you resurface them in such a
case? The van has 115K. Thanks for your help.
-Innocent Listmember >>
<<<Discoloring is pretty normal unless it's really really blue/black with
hairline cracks in the surface. Unless it's seen hard service it's probably
OK but when in doubt, have it resurfaced. It's cheap and easy now when
everything's apart. You can check it yourself with the same dial gauge needed
to shim the flywheel or bring it to your local parts store and ask them to
check it for you.
I'll resend you everything I can regarding this job. Hope it helps!
Andrew >>>
The previous messages on this thread are available in the Vanagon List
Archives and include all VW Part numbers for the parts I purchased for this
job. Use the Search fuction with the word "flywheel" and authors address as
"Noganav@aol.com"
By the way...I hate AOL E-mail system! If this message appears to be
formatted in colors other than black and white it is unintentional!! My
attempts to fix have only made it worse.
Andrew G. Martin
'87 Vanagon GL Syncro
176K
"Vanagons Rule and chicks dig 'em."