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Date:         Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:49:21 -0500
Reply-To:     John Anderson <janderson@IOLINC.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John Anderson <janderson@IOLINC.NET>
Subject:      Re: Are Vanagons more fire oriented than any other old car?
Comments: To: vanagon@vanagon.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>> Vanagon, mainly because of their age. So, does the same apply to all old >> cars that the lines should be replaced? What is it about the air cooled > >yes. and no. it appears that the american rubber hoses SEEM to >last much longer than the German ones. why, i don't know. but >British hoses also seem to have the same troubles as the German >ones: short life.

Wow, I'm differing with Joel for the first time nearly ever in 5 years. I think German FI hose lasts spectacularly. Lets think a minute, yeah buses burn, when they are still on their origional FI hoses 20+ years later. Very hard to truly compare as most US FI systems started in the what mid 80's at best. Air cooled buses and Vans are of course VERY prone to failure at the firewall whether it is rubber or steel (depending on year) passing through. Now some wasserboxers have always seemed a bit overprone as well, probably cause they had a string of clamp related problems that should have all been caught in recalls, but also due to the boxer design a lot I think. The damn ring running back and forth all around the engine makes for a lot more connections and a lot more mechanical stress then found as most American cars, and most others bracket fuel lines fairly rigidly to the engine and flex between it and the frame, on all the VW T2 installs the ring just sort of floats there self supporting. I still personally prefer to delete the steel lines on '78-'83 vintage air cooleds that came so equipped and install good rubber line with less connenctions and less stress from steel forcing the rubber to bend at bad angles. I sleeve such conversions in the standard German sleeving material salvaged from junkers. As VW returned to this on wasserboxers makes sense to me. I recently replaced the lines on a friends '84 which were origional and as a matter of course slice them open to look at them, not bad considering age. But some I've seen have been horrid, my '87 for instance. I think a lot has to do with the type of gas, particularly additives and the reformulated oxygenated crap. And another thing, the FI German line sold today really isn't quite as good as some of the stuff VW installed over the years, the initial striated stuff after the braided fabric covered far as I can tell was better; then some years have a drastically superior fabric covered smooth which is like the smooth covered rubber with a thin fabric covering impregnated in the rubber. So all in all, I don't know my point, I know most US manufacturers don't have products that have been in service so long. Something to caution everyone professing the wonder of the CIS lines, yep them stainless lines last forever, but carefully inspect what feeds the stainless lines, the ones to the pump and around the filter. They are often rubber, ugly, and with severely rusted fittings, or even worse dreaded VW cad plated steel, gauranteed in a salt belt to be really really unsafe. So as always don't wonder if they are prone to fire more than others, expect it and take precautions like replacement every 5 or so years. Something I'm interested in is if anyone has ever seen the hard plastic line from gas tank to firewall, also used in many of the later FWD cars degrade. I never have but on the '81 I worry.

John janderson@iolinc.net


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