Date:         Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:45:16 -0500
Reply-To:     "ErikO@ebyte.com" <ErikO@EBYTE.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "ErikO@ebyte.com" <ErikO@EBYTE.COM>
Organization: Ebyte Communications
Subject:      Why List Vendors Suck: Farewell Letter
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

List vendors don't really suck. Most are really nice people. These are
just my thoughts on this topic and my farewell letter.

I personally think that heavy commercial presence takes away from the
integrity of the non-profit, dedicated efforts of the people who have
posted information to this forum. It's this information that adds value
to the list and makes people want to subscribe, stay subscribed, and
contribute something of value, thereby making this list even more
effective. There's just something wrong when a few, who feed off this
concept for profit, have unfettered access and expect so much. "Tim
Smith's JB Weld head gasket repair instruction post" isn't as valuable
today as it was several years ago. They've just seemed to have taken
something away from this whole concept. I'm not saying that they've done
this on purpose, but I think it's happened never-the-less.

Imagine how people would feel if I went out this summer and tried to
sell copies of Darrell B's ??? (can't spell it) digifant tool to all the
Vanagon repair places I could find. I could get $500 a pop if I had a
good presentation. How would I find Vanagon specific repair joints?
Well, from the list of them that was created by listmembers. OR.... What
if I went out and bought all the Vanagon deals that listmembers posted
here and marked them up a couple grand for resale? Thanks for the leads
guys!

I'm not saying that ANY list vendor is doing anything this bad. But in a
way they are and this is the reason why some people on the list are
strongly against commercialism. We have lost a lot of really good
people, because I think we've lost our sense of community.

One way to test this is to have two lists and measure the subscription
numbers between the commercial and the non. I think the results would
speak for themselves at to where the value is.

I haven't bashed a vendor since Ron's European Vacation(now on video)
when his henchman Gerry posted a damage control letter to the list. Now
I'm not an English teacher, but Ron has a rather distinct style of
writing and this letter "from" Gerry looked rather suspicious.
Commercial damage control penned by Ron! I didn't feel it was
appropriate and sent a response to the list to "unsubscribe me from the
BusDepot list please". I thought it was funny, one list member didn't
and sent the following....

"Erik - I'm sure your local VW dealer is, uh, eager to please.  I had no
problems with a $500+ order back in July.  Makes me wonder when folks
complain so publicly about ordering from The Bus Depot.  You didn't
screw up your order, did you?"

What's this guy talking about? I complained about list abuse. If someone
has a problem with the apples, it's irrelevant how sweet the oranges
are.

With that said, I want to say I really like Ron Salmon. I think he's a
savvy businessman and sometimes a good contributor. Do a search in the
archives on "Salmon light beer" and you'll see what I mean. I wish we
could see more from this guy like this.

One of the new vendors who claims he's not "commercial" sent 13 messages
to the list almost all at once. 10 of which were ads selling the same
shit he's been offering every week, and probably still has. I know this
upsets some people because they're seeing the same names way too often
and getting tired of the dull content.

List vendors that get gold stars in my book? Todd hill and Steve Sashey
(sp?), you know, the thing guy. Their posts are infrequent and they
offer much more than the rest, especially Todd.

I think the solution lays in the corporation of the vendors to exert
some level of control and possibly limiting them to a specific day for
spam. Also, the people (like myself) who still believe in the founding
principles of the list and internet in general, need to realize that the
times are changing and it's never going to be "like in the old days of
the list" again. This doesn't work for me though.....

I think I will voice my opinion on this concept by unsubscribing. I just
have no desire to contribute anything meaningful if someone else is
going to exploit it, or at least expect the privilege to exploit it as
if it was their right. Plus, the content sucks anymore, adding more to
my theory of where the value of this list is derived from.

Later kids.... and no, list vendors don't really suck. Most are really
nice people.

--
_________________________
Erik O          Akron, Oh
'82 GTI Powered Westfalia

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