Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:13:46 -0500
Reply-To: "Robert A. Alexander" <satcong@VOL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: "Robert A. Alexander" <satcong@VOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why List Vendors Suck: Farewell Letter
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
ErikO@ebyte.com wrote:
> List vendors don't really suck. Most are really nice people. These are
> just my thoughts on this topic and my farewell letter.
(Violins in the background) Then, why the flaming of List vendors?
>
>
> I personally think that heavy commercial presence takes away from the
> integrity of the non-profit, dedicated efforts of the people who have
> posted information to this forum.
Your view is not shared by most folks. Obviously, on the List, there is a
mixture of those who offer technical tips and those who understand that
making parts available to follow through with those tech. tips is of value
and appreciated by many.
> It's this information that adds value
> to the list and makes people want to subscribe, stay subscribed, and
> contribute something of value, thereby making this list even more
> effective. There's just something wrong when a few, who feed off this
> concept for profit, have unfettered access and expect so much.
There's NO evidence of your position on the List, even in the Archives.
> "Tim Smith's JB Weld head gasket repair instruction post" isn't as
> valuable
> today as it was several years ago. They've just seemed to have taken
> something away from this whole concept. I'm not saying that they've done
> this on purpose, but I think it's happened never-the-less.
Translated: if you don't use Tim's technique, you're retarded?
>
>
> Imagine how people would feel if I went out this summer and tried to
> sell copies of Darrell B's ??? (can't spell it) digifant tool to all the
> Vanagon repair places I could find. I could get $500 a pop if I had a
> good presentation.
Darrell should patent his device IF he thinks it's worthwhile to make such
an investment. Even if he does, nothing within patent law prevents an
individual from duplicating the device and using it, eh?
> How would I find Vanagon specific repair joints?
> Well, from the list of them that was created by listmembers. OR.... What
> if I went out and bought all the Vanagon deals that listmembers posted
> here and marked them up a couple grand for resale? Thanks for the leads
> guys!
Leads are leads. If you choose to keep such things "secret", we won't know,
will we?
>
>
> I'm not saying that ANY list vendor is doing anything this bad. But in a
> way they are and this is the reason why some people on the list are
> strongly against commercialism. We have lost a lot of really good
> people, because I think we've lost our sense of community.
They aren't, BUT they "are" and causing a loss of "sense of community"?
This MUST have something to do with dialectic materialism & the Soviet Way?
>
>
> One way to test this is to have two lists and measure the subscription
> numbers between the commercial and the non. I think the results would
> speak for themselves at to where the value is.
Sure! Let the elitist whiners start their own List, charge for membership
and maintain their purist views. The market rules, huh?
>
>
> I haven't bashed a vendor since Ron's European Vacation(now on video)
> when his henchman Gerry posted a damage control letter to the list. Now
> I'm not an English teacher, but Ron has a rather distinct style of
> writing and this letter "from" Gerry looked rather suspicious.
> Commercial damage control penned by Ron! I didn't feel it was
> appropriate and sent a response to the list to "unsubscribe me from the
> BusDepot list please". I thought it was funny, one list member didn't
> and sent the following....
>
> "Erik - I'm sure your local VW dealer is, uh, eager to please. I had no
> problems with a $500+ order back in July. Makes me wonder when folks
> complain so publicly about ordering from The Bus Depot. You didn't
> screw up your order, did you?"
>
> What's this guy talking about? I complained about list abuse. If someone
> has a problem with the apples, it's irrelevant how sweet the oranges
> are.
Apples, obviously, are apples and the same for oranges. After the weird
trashing of Ron, back in October, some Dude/Dudette wrote the:
"Could someone tell me how to *un-subscribe* from Ron Salmon's mailing
list. I don't care where he is or the condition of his commercial venture."
note.
Still wondering if this Dude/Dudette screwed up his order to The Bus Depot
and just wanted to blame Ron.
>
>
> With that said, I want to say I really like Ron Salmon. I think he's a
> savvy businessman and sometimes a good contributor. Do a search in the
> archives on "Salmon light beer" and you'll see what I mean. I wish we
> could see more from this guy like this.
Jeez, you mean you don't consider "beer" to be off-topic???
>
>
> One of the new vendors who claims he's not "commercial" sent 13 messages
> to the list almost all at once. 10 of which were ads selling the same
> shit he's been offering every week, and probably still has. I know this
> upsets some people because they're seeing the same names way too often
> and getting tired of the dull content.
Not really! It gives me a chance to plug my "original" '85GL exhaust
system, holes and all, for only $699.95, complete with a holey catalytic
converter!!!
>
>
> List vendors that get gold stars in my book? Todd hill and Steve Sashey
> (sp?), you know, the thing guy. Their posts are infrequent and they
> offer much more than the rest, especially Todd.
So, in other words, if vendors don't particularly "bug" you, they're ok?
>
>
> I think the solution lays in the corporation of the vendors to exert
> some level of control and possibly limiting them to a specific day for
> spam. Also, the people (like myself) who still believe in the founding
> principles of the list and internet in general, need to realize that the
> times are changing and it's never going to be "like in the old days of
> the list" again. This doesn't work for me though.....
Tough, things are a' changing, and you need to get with the program or get
left behind.
>
>
> I think I will voice my opinion on this concept by unsubscribing. I just
> have no desire to contribute anything meaningful if someone else is
> going to exploit it, or at least expect the privilege to exploit it as
> if it was their right. Plus, the content sucks anymore, adding more to
> my theory of where the value of this list is derived from.
Yep, them bourgeois just seem to pop up everywhere!
>
>
> Later kids.... and no, list vendors don't really suck. Most are really
> nice people.
Sure they are, just like a few of the elitists I've noticed on the List
since last year. The interesting thing about this List is being able to see
folks trying to sell stuff at inflated prices, folks telling newcomers to
"check out the archives" before daring to try to ask List members a
question, folks trying to convince others that there are only ONE set of
tires they should ever mount on their Vanagons and elitists trying to
correct the spelling of those of us who can't.
The neatest thing about the List is that anyone can come on and ask a
question about their Vanagon as long as they are not intimidated by
primadonnas who insult their intelligence.
Bob Bourgeois
>
>
> --
> _________________________
> Erik O Akron, Oh
> '82 GTI Powered Westfalia
>
> West.of.Wolfsburg
> http://ebyte.com/wow
>
> Greatlakes.Camping.Info
> http://ebyte.com/gl
> _________________________
> Ebyte Communications
> http://ebyte.com
