Date:         Fri, 5 Feb 1999 17:26:12 -0500
Reply-To:     The Bus Depot <ron@NETCARRIER.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         The Bus Depot <ron@NETCARRIER.COM>
Subject:      Re: extractor exhaust?
In-Reply-To:  <199902051424.JAA27866@zeus.midmaine.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> I have run a couple of these on the 81 Westy I recently sold.  The first
> was an EMPI dual quietpack design.  Had sort of a mellow throaty sound.
> Noticeable, but not obnoxious.  I did notice a 1-2mpg increase over the
> stock system and I imagine the power was better also.
> However this particular system was VERY cheaply made


*(Note: This post relates to aircooled Vanagons only)*


This has been my experience as well.  Most of the extractor type systems,
such as the Bugpacks, Empi's, and Thunderbirds, are of relatively thin metal
and in many cases are crimped rather than welded on the ends.  I sell the
Empi systems for the aircooled Vanagons, which I have found to be, in my
mind, the "least bad" of the extractors in terms of reliability, which is
about all I can say about them.  The systems are cheap (about $100), so at
least you don't spend a lot.  I can't comment on the performance aspect,
having personally not noticed a huge improvement myself when using one on a
'77 Westy (same engine), but then again I wasn't looking for two much speed
out of a '77 Westy anyway.

One reason why the extractor systems provide a bigger power increase on a
Vanagon is that they do away with the catalytic converter and the EGR
fitting.  These systems are actually designed for pre-cat-era '72-74 busses,
not Vanagons, but they happen to match the Vanagon heat exchanger bolt
pattern, which is why they are often sold as Vanagon exhausts.  This is good
if your local law doesn't require emission inspection, but bad if it does
(or will soon).  Bear in mind that emissions laws are changing, and just
because you can get away without a cat right now doesn't mean you always
well. Here in Pa., for example, they are phasing in emission testing in
counties that previously didn't require it. As a result, many people who
years ago tossed out their expensive stock exhaust systems in favor of
cat-less bus ones, now have to buy stock systems again.

If you can get away without a cat, and don't neccessarily need an extractor
design, there is a very nice cat-less alternative to the extractor systems.
You can install a stock 72-74 bus exhaust system, which is what Volkswagen
used on aircooled Vanagons in some countries where cat's were not required.
A nice quality Danish made system will set you back $169 complete
(everything behind the heat exchangers), and is substantially heavier duty
than the extractor systems.  It will definately last much longer than the
extractor systems, and provide the performance advantages of going cat-less,
but of course will not provide the benefits of an extractor design.

If you do need a cat, the complete system from the heat exchanger back is
considerably more expensive, at $479 complete (including cat). This is a
stock system for '80-83 U.S. spec.

Oh, and by the way, I have a few pair left of genuine N.O.S. German heat
exchangers for Vanagons, for the unheard of price of $329 pair including
listmember discount.  This quality has been unavailable for years and may
well be unavailable forever once I'm out of them.

- Ron Salmon
 The Bus Depot
 http://www.busdepot.com