Date:         Thu, 13 May 1999 18:27:43 -0300
Reply-To:     Malcolm Stebbins <Malcolm.Stebbins@MSVU.CA>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Malcolm Stebbins <Malcolm.Stebbins@MSVU.CA>
Subject:      Re: CV joint replacement questions
In-Reply-To:  <373B3B2C.373E4CE7@bama.ua.edu>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I'm no mechanic and what is written here is (I am sure) excellent,
but as a real easy stop gap measure, there was a thread a few
weeks ago on grease needles, and how to just squirt some grease
in the boots,  If this is just a grease problem, this MIGHT be an
easy first! step in the process.  I plan to try the grease needle this
Monday as a preventative (and cheap) measure before a long trip.
Again, I'm no mechanic, but seems like a good first effort that may
forestall the messy and expensive.   Malcolm S

Joel wrote:

> > Knock, Knock.
> > Who's there?
>
> Argo. :)
>
> > I've got that CV joint knocking in the right rear when I make a right
> > turn. I'm assuming that means the right rear CV joint or joints need to
> > be replaced. That leaves me with three questions.
>
> not necessarily ... it may simply need cleaning and
> regreasing. they knock because the grease has dried out and
> isn't circulating within the joint. the trick is to take it
> out and clean it and see what sizes (if any) the 'galling'
> (little spots that look like welding) is ... if small
> (smaller than a dime) and less than, say, two or three, the
> joint can go for many thousands of miles more, with new
> grease (and more of it). if you have galling as big as a
> quarter, or six or seven spots of smaller size, then, yeah,
> new joints would likely be in order.
>
> cleaning and regreasing is something that needs to be done
> every few years. the more grease you use, the less often you
> need to do it. i use about two to three times as much as is
> 'recommended' and i redo it about every 50,000 miles.
> normally, it's 30,000 miles or two years.
>
> also, the joint on the OUTside is usually the one making the
> noise in a turn ... as it has to travel faster than the
> joint on the inside of the turn. so if it's only in
> right-hand turns, i'd suspect the left outer joint first.
> but ALL of them need the cleaning and regreasing. and
> checking the rubber boots, too, for any cracks, tears,
> cracks, etc. boots are cheap: like $15 each.
>
> > 1. I believe there are two CV joints for each axle on each side (meaning
> > 4 total on the 2WD bus). How do I decide which right side CV joint needs
> > to be replaced, inner or outer, or should they both be replaced?
>
> yup. four joints. pull them off (not difficult, but the
> axles and joints are heavy. and dirty. VERY messy job. wear
> OLD clothes, like the kind you can throw away) and clean
> them (get the grease all off. use gasoline (BE CAREFUL!) or
> spray cans of 'carb cleaner' or 'brake cleaner' (generic
> stuff at local auto parts stores; about $3/can. maybe three
> or four cans should do it. maybe less). once cleaned, you
> can see any 'galling' and the size and number of spots will
> give you an idea of whether or not the joint needs to be
> replaced or just regreased and put back on.
>
> > 2.Can I do the job without special tools or machinery? I see in Bentley
> > the axel or something getting pressed out of the CV joint with a press.
> > Can this job be done by a backyard mechanic without a press?
>
> yup. you'll need a special socket (of one of two types:
> either a 6mm hex-head allen-wrench type; or a 10mm 12-point
> 'triple-square' type; these are the only two types of bolts
> usually found on vw bus cv joints). sometimes, the joints
> are stuck on the axles and you'll need to 'persuade' them to
> get off. but if the rubber boots are ok, you really don't
> NEED to take the joints off the axles to clean them. only if
> you need to replace the boots do you require the joint to
> come off the axle. and you can use a vise to hold the axle
> or a Workman to hold the joint and tap the axle out with a
> hammer and drift-punch. that is, it can be done in the back
> yard.
>
> but warnings:
> - do NOT disassemble the joints! and don't tilt them too
> much or the little balls will fall out. you can clean them
> with the spray cans without taking the joint apart. if you
> disassemble them, it just makes it harder to get them back
> together ... it's not 'intuitively obvious'.:) i highly
> recommend getting the Idiot's Guide book by John Muir (about
> $25). it has a really good section on taking them off, and
> cleaning them and putting them back on.
> - do NOT do this inside the house!! wives will kill, if not
> divorce, and will be acquited in court. :) it is REALLY
> messy. that grease can leap off the joints onto you and your
> clothes. do NOT try to wash those clothes, or you'll get
> grease on the next load you wash. or grey underwear for
> months. really.
>
> > 3.When replacing the axel what keeps the 8 or 10 allen bolts (or star
> > pattern bolts) that connect each end of the axel from loosening.
>
> the little star-washers/lock-washers and the tightening
> torque. it's a good idea to climb under there after about
> 100-200 miles and recheck the torque. you'll need to get a
> small (up to 75 ft-lbs) torque wrench. from sears, about
> $40.
>
> >Do I replace the double holed washer/bracket type thing that the allen
> >bolts go throught with new ones?
>
> nah. just re-use the old ones. old bolts, old washers, old
> bracket-thingie.
>
> >Does that bracket work as a lock (washer) device?
>
> i'm not sure what the hell it does. maybe keeps the bolt
> from rubbing on the cv joint, or maybe it's just a
> 'stand-off' to increase the distance from the bolt-head to
> the bottom of the bolt-hole. i've just always put them back.
>
> it's not a 'hard' job, but it is messy. and takes a lot of
> time, the first time you do it. took me all day saturday.
> last time i did it, it took about four hours. most of the
> first time is spent reading, looking, thinking, rereading,
> looking, doing, thinking, rereading, looking, and so forth.
> :)
>
> i recommend Valvoline Moly EP high-temp wheel bearing
> grease, product number 613. they've changed the packaging
> and the name, but it's black slimey grease in a paper tube,
> sold in auto parts store. be sure it's the stuff that says
> 'for disc brakes' ... that can handle higher temperatures. i
> use 1/2 tube per joint .. cram as much as possible into the
> joint, and whatever is left over into the rubber boot. and
> you'll still not get it all in there, cause several ounces
> of it will be on your shirt and pants. :)
>
> get a large cardboard box, like U-haul moving (the ones that
> are about five feet tall) or old refrigerator shipping box
> (from behind the appliance stores). this is for laying on
> the ground, so you don't get any colder/wetter/dirtier than
> necessary. you also don't get little rocks sticking into
> your back. much better than laying on the ground directly.
>
> jack up the bus and put jackstands under it. you'll need the
> rear wheels to be off the ground, high enough so you can
> rotate the wheels ... some of the bolts at the wheel end are
> hard to reach (down inside the trailing arm of the
> suspension). if you have someone else to help, it goes
> quicker, as they can step on the brakes while you
> loosen/tighten a few bolts, then let up on the brakes while
> you turn the wheel, then brake again for the last few bolts.
>
> i recommend removing all but two bolts on each joint (do
> ONLY one side at a time: two joints/one axle). this way, if
> you get confused, you have the other side to look at!!! much
> more likely you'll get it right this way. :) anyway, take
> four bolts out, but leave two bolts in (but loosen them)
> that are on opposite sides of the joint. this holds the
> joint in place while you work on the opposite end of the
> axle. it makes it easier to hold the axle with one hand
> while removing those last bolts. be careful: the joints and
> axle make a heavy assembly, and if you are not ready for the
> weight, you can bonk yourself in the head. :(
>
> don't lose the bolts and washers and little
> bracket-thingies!!
>
> clean up the wheel end and the transmission end after the
> axle/joints is removed. get as much of the old grease out of
> the bolt holes as possible.
>
> lights! get a flourescent 'trouble light'. do not get the
> incandescent/bulb kind ... the bulbs break if you look at
> them wrongly, and they get really HOT and will burn you if
> you bump against them. the flourescent ones cost more, but
> will not burn you and last longer.
>
> if you are doing this on bare ground, or gravel, put some
> 1x1-foot 1/2-inch thick plywood under each jackstand. and
> leave the jack positioned under the frame ...just in case.
> if you don't put the plywood under the jackstands, the
> weight of the bus can cause the jackstands to start sinking
> into the dirt/gravel, and the whole thing may start tilting
> ... which is why the jack is left under there: to give you
> time to wiggle out!! don't even think about trying it
> without the jackstands!
>
> that's about it. not hard. messy. takes a while the first
> time. but the joints are really neat things. :) especially
> when you get them cleaned off. amazing how they work. and
> actually, they are pretty tough little buggers. :)
>
> good luck
> joel