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Date:         Wed, 23 Jun 1999 23:08:18 -0400
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <dhaynes57@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <dhaynes57@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject:      Re: Does GREG'S Import Motor's Suck?
Comments: To: Bulley <gmbulley@BULLEY-HEWLETT.COM>

I think there are a few too many assumptions here. See my comments below. -----Original Message----- From: Bulley <gmbulley@BULLEY-HEWLETT.COM> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 10:22 PM Subject: Does GREG'S Import Motor's Suck?

>VW Friends-- > >Most of you folks know I don't make a practice out of slamming anyone or >any business. > >I am, however, on there verge of vigorously bad-mouthing a business for the >rest of my life, and want to know whether anyone else has had a similar >experience before I do... > >The story-- > >We bought our 1982 Westfalia from an honest, Christian, retired Red Cross >Nurse; a kind-driving middle-aged woman who kept the van garaged for 10 >months of the year, and shipped it to Europe the other two months to travel >with her teenaged-kids...(I am NOT making this up). Her kids had grown up, >and she hadn't used the van hardly at all for a few years. > >The van had 92k on it when we bought it. The motor had been "rebuilt" at >79k, which didn't seem unusual to me, since the van rested and corroded for >10 months, then got punishing European mountains and highways for four >weeks before being shipped home and stowed again. > >Overall, she spared absolutely no expense on the maintenance, and I have no >reason to believe she told the rebuilding garage to do anything less than >what the motor needed to be whole again. > >Here is where things get a little fishy. > >She had all the receipts, and the rebuild looked like a semi-typical >top-end job. I say "semi-typical" because it was done in an emergency...she >broke down in South Carolina. One of the pistons was allegedly burned >through due to detonation...but none of the others. Further, the receipt >states it was the #4 piston, which normally runs pretty cool. Also, there >was no evidence that the shop had the heads refurbished at all. One would >think at 80k after a piston meltdown, they would have.

Vanagon engines burn cylinder #4 as often as any other cylinder. They do not seem to limit the overheat problem to #3 like the type engines.

>On our purchase, the compression was 30-120-60-135, so we figured on some >burned valves, and knew we'd do a full rebuild. No big deal. > >The receipt showed that the pistons and cylinders were all replaced with >new P/C, for which she was charged $420.35. The receipt also shows that she >was charged for connecting rod bearings $49.35. That would be pretty >standard if a piston had melted down from detonation. With the good deal we >got on the van, I figured the cost of a rebuild; and that the brand new P/C >combination would be reusable. > >So, Sunday, with 101k on the van (approx. 22k on the "rebuild") the wife >and I snatched the motor out of the Vanagon, and striped it down. What we >saw was a surprise, and made me question the integrity of the shop that did >the work, and billed our little-old-lady PO $1,400 for her "rebuild". > >I have disassembled and rebuild dozens of VW motors; at least two or three >dozen Type 4 motors alone. Here is what I observed, confirmed today by the >machine shop where I dropped the parts. > >These are the original (100k) pistons, except one. The rings appear to be >original or used, as the gaps are around 2 millimeters. > >The #1 and #3 intake valve seats are dropped, #1 nearly completely, leading >me to believe the assembler didn't even pull the valves to eyeball the >heads and see if the seats were okay. > >On his re-assembly, he torqued a piece of trash into the cylinder top seal, >causing the seal to burn through and leak compression.

Sure the gasket didn't melt when it failed. Probably failed due to a warped block not keeping the cyclinders perfectly parrelell. This is a very common problem with the Vanagon air cooled engines. > >On two of the cylinders, the ring gaps were lined up in a straight line at >the top of the piston. (They should be spaced out at 120 degree intervals). > >The oil scraper rings were installed with the expansion "springs" >overlapping, so that the rings didn't expand out from the piston.

VW never used 3 piece oil rings on the air cooled engines or Waterboxers. This indicates they were replaced, probably NPR brand as most Cofaps and Mahle's use the one piece oil ring with spring. > >The connecting rod bearings appeared to be original, not replaced as she >was charged. The part number trace on the back of each shell was clear on >the inside of the connecting rod, and the bearings were well worn.

This is a tough one. The numbers may also be from the original bearings or they transfered very quickly. > >ALL the pushrod tubes were replaced and she was charged $164.80 for these; >I have never seen replacing ALL the tubes to be necessary. Sometimes one or >two will be bent or rusty, but never the whole set. > >He charged $9.92 in "Engine Paint" because he painted the aluminum fan >housing and cooling fan. (Why, we may never know). > >The spark plug wires had numbers written on them in grease pencil, with >numbers that didn't correspond to the tin stamped numbers, but to the >grease pencil numbers the mechanic had written on the tin NEXT TO the >stamped number. > >My conclusion is that the mechanic was an imbecile, and the garage owner >was a swindler. > >Anyone who would put the screws to our PO is a scheming lowlife worthy of >living next to a chemical factory under some power lines in a burning >desert. Our PO is a sweet, if not mechanically-versed woman. > >The work was performed on November 11, 1993 at GREG'S IMPORT MOTORS, on >Willow Creek Road, in Florence, South Carolina (803) 664-0880. Anybody have >similar experiences with this GREG'S crowd? > > I have seen these engines overheat and get destroyed in a few thousand miles. These engines failed so often when these vans were new VW came up with the diesel just to have something reliable, ( if not slow) to sell until they relaesd the water boxer. I know some who have gooten fair service, but my friends who drove them back in the 80's gave up on them quickly. After 6 years, I think it is difficult to say what really happened and why. Since this engine was origianlly overheated, I think the shops first mistake was to attempt repair. A goodinspection will probably shaw a warped case, (center bearing web wiped), in need of an align bore, cylinder seats pounded, and heads in need of much work.

My opinions from my experiences, Dennis

Thanks for confirming or denying my suspicions... > >G. Matthew Bulley >Bulley-Hewlett & Associates >www.bulley-hewlett.com >Cary, NC USA >888.468.4880 tollfree > >


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