Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:42:34 -0500
Reply-To: Darrell Boehler <midwesty@MIDWEST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Darrell Boehler <midwesty@MIDWEST.NET>
Subject: Re: 1/4 mile syndrome is back!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi John,
Seems you have a tiger by the tail. Be sure your fuel pump is running,
listen for it to turn on for a second with the key. This tells you quite a
lot, if the fuel pump is running the ecu will most likely be running, and
the coil is getting primary power. The fuel pump voltage source is the same
as the
ecu source, (relay box in engine compartment). The ignition key switch is
required to get any action from most all engine electronics. The best way to
know you have fuel pressure is to buy a fuel pressure gauge, hook it up to
the fuel ring T with a long 7mm hose and check when the anomaly is present.
Should be 30 psi at idle and 36 under load or with vacuum hose pulled from
the pressure regulator.
Check for coil voltage with a meter, it comes direct from the ignition
key. Good luck with your quest.
Darrell Boehler
Makanda Illinois
----- Original Message -----
From: John Lauterbach <jhlauterbach@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: 1/4 mile syndrome is back!
> Tom, thank you for your reply. I thought that I had this problem solved
> with Sunday's cleaning of the connectors. I was wrong. Left work this
> afternoon around 5 p.m. Van had been in 80F temps all day in parking lot.
> Drove about 1,5 miles to gas station. Put in 13 gallons. Went to start
> van. It fired once, then died. Went around to the engine compartment,
> lifted up the lid, shook the cable going to the ECU, got back in drivers
> seat and started the van. Ran just fine all the way home.
>
> Obviously, I am dealing with ghosts or an intermittent connection. If it
is
> intermittent, then I should be losing the engine while driving. Doesn't
> happen though. When van is cold, starts fine and runs fine. Most of the
> ignition and fuel system is new within the past two years and all ground
> cables have been redone.
>
> Any ideas what to try next?
>
> John in Middle Georgia
> '84 DL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom L. Neal <jneal@netcom.com>
> To: John Lauterbach <jhlauterbach@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 10:56 PM
> Subject: Re: 1/4 mile syndrome is back!
>
>
> > Studying the contacts on both connectors would be useful.
> >
> > Contact corrosion is a likely suspect. If you can burnish the connector
> > contacts on both sides with a fine steel wool, then blow all the steel
> wool
> > bits a long way away, then put a tiny amount of ignition contact grease
> > on the surface, then put it back together, it should make a solid
> connection.
> >
> > Could just have a bent contact which could be bent back.
> >
> > Problem might be seeable.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Cheers, Tom Neal
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, John Lauterbach wrote:
> >
> > > Darie, I have had a similar problem with my '84DL. In my case, I have
> (with
> > > the help of my mechanic) to the connector between the ECU and the FI
> wiring
> > > harness. If these contacts are anything but squeaky clean, I have
> problems.
> > > Last week, I had problems restarting van after a short drive. If I
went
> > > back to the engine, wiggled the connector a couple of times, it would
> start
> > > right up. No wiggle, no start.
> > >
> > > John in Middle Georgia
> > > '84DL
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Darie Duclos <Darie.Duclos@UNIFR.CH>
> > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > > Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 10:03 AM
> > > Subject: 1/4 mile syndrome is back!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Help!
> > > >
> > > > I thought this problem had gone away, but now that I've got
> > > > road inspection this week, it turns out it's not solved. I
> > > > have a pretty good description of the symptoms now. Perhaps
> > > > you can help me narrow down the possibilities.
> > > >
> > > > The problem: accelerator pedal begins to have little or no
> > > > effect on propelling the vehicle forward. When the speed
> > > > has dropped sufficiently, the engine hiccups forward, as
> > > > if I wasn't giving enough gas. The RPMs go down, so it's not
> > > > something like the clutch slipping. It may feel like it's
> > > > running of fewer cylinders. Without even stopping, I can
> > > > turn off the ignition and right back on, and the acceleration
> > > > is back for 1/4 to a 1/2 mile, then the same thing happens
> > > > again.
> > > >
> > > > Important details:
> > > > - when engine is cold, no problem, I can start it up and
> > > > drive with no apparent time limit so long as I don't turn
> > > > it off.
> > > >
> > > > - each time (3 or 4 times) the engine was running between
> > > > 10 and 30 minutes, then *was cut and started again* (with or
> > > > without much of a pause), the problem occurred: I had to
> > > > cut the ignition and restart every 1/4 mile until my
> > > > destination.
> > > >
> > > > - after a *45* minute drive (from cold start of course),
> > > > cutting the engine and starting again several times, with
> > > > varying delays, did *not* reproduce the problem.
> > > >
> > > > - arg! I just tried to reproduce the problem again by driving
> > > > 5 minutes and shutting off the engine, then restarting.
> > > > It won't do it! It only does it when I really want to
> > > > go somewhere!! Damn piece of merde.
> > > >
> > > > - the engine is running much too rich. (At least) when it has
> > > > the problem, it spits out coal, enough to make a serious
> > > > black stain on the pavement or on your pants if you're standing
> > > > behind the bus.
> > > >
> > > > - a car electrician just checked some values related to the
> > > > temperature sensor. He found that at 40 degrees it read
> > > > 1200 somethings (ohms? I can't remember) but he couldn't
> > > > find my model of bus in his references and he didn't know
> > > > for sure whether this value was normal. I left him my
> > > > Haynes manual but I don't know if it's in there. Anybody
> > > > know what this value means and what it should be for an
> > > > 86 2.1 liter water-cooled vanagon (MV)?
> > > >
> > > > The only thing for sure about this problem is that it has never
> > > > occurred on a first run after cold start. It has only happened
> > > > upon starting up the engine when already warm. And then, if it
> > > > starts doing it, it does it at every startup. If it doesn't do it,
> > > > it doesn't do it at all no matter how many times I restart.
> > > > The following possible causes had been
> > > > suggested after my previous postings. I would like some opinions
> > > > about which could be ruled out because I have very little time
> > > > until the inspection and I'm afraid that if I take it to a garage
> > > > it will cost me an arm and a leg before they even figure out what's
> > > > wrong.
> > > >
> > > > - fuel pressure (pump or regulator)
> > > > I changed the fuel filter with no effect. How can I test the
> > > > pump or regulator?
> > > > Wouldn't this cause a problem upon a cold startup or during
> > > > an initial run?
> > > >
> > > > - bad O2 sensor
> > > > We disconnected and reconnected the O2 sensor once, before the
> > > > 45 minute test drive, to see how the bus ran. Then we tried to
> > > > reproduce the problem with the intention of disconnecting the
> > > > O2 sensor at that time and see if the situation improved.
> > > > Unfortunately, after driving 45 minutes, the problem did not
> > > > occur.. I plan to try this after a shorter drive, but I'm not
> > > > sure what I should expect. i.e. it's runs bad, I disconnect the
> > > > O2 sensor, it runs better? Some of you said it wouldn't run very
> > > > well with the O2 sensor disconnected so how do I tell the
> difference?
> > > >
> > > > - bad temp II sensor
> > > > Would this not cause a problem even without cutting the engine,
> > > > simply just when the motor gets warm?
> > > > I can see how some of these things would get reset upon restarting
> > > > the engine and I heard that their values are ignored by the
> > > > "computer" for a little while after startup, but I don't see why
> > > > they shouldn't affect the "first run" after the motor has gotten
> > > > warm.
> > > >
> > > > - grounded O2 sensor circuit, loose or disconnected O2 sensor ground
> > > > I may have twiddled it both times when the problem could not
> > > > be reproduced. How could I check for sure that this is the
> > > > cause? I guess the car electrician could do something with
> > > > measurement instruments but I have to reproduce the damn problem
> > > > for him, which I just failed to be able to do.
> > > >
> > > > - clogged catalytic converter
> > > > Shouldn't the problem be more constant then?
> > > >
> > > > - faulty ignition switch
> > > > Is it dependent on the warmth of the motor?
> > > >
> > > > - gas cap plugged up
> > > > my gas cap is not ventilated, but maybe some other ventilation
> > > > is plugged up. However, the pattern of the symptoms speaks
> > > > against it again.
> > > >
> > > > If you can help me narrow down the possible causes, I would be
> > > > very thankful. Also, if you can point me to the procedure for
> > > > incriminating or innocenting one or the other component, that
> > > > would be great.
> > > >
> > > > I'm kind of on my own (swf) to do this now since I moved out of
> > > > the pretty-good-with-mechanics-boyfriend's place yesterday. I'm
> > > > not very experienced but I can do anything I'm told. (Hey, I changed
> > > > my pilot bearing a few years back with your help..) And I've got my
> > > > Haynes manual..
> > > >
> > > > Thanks a bunch!
> > > > Darie
> > > > '86 multicolour canadian Westy with swiss landed immigrant status
> > >
>
| 
