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Date:         Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:53:18 -0400
Reply-To:     John <johnpatt@WARWICK.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         John <johnpatt@WARWICK.NET>
Subject:      Re: Deutsches Methode, Brakes
Comments: To: "T.P. Stephens" <doktortim@ROCKISLAND.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

T.P. Stephens wrote: > > At 10:15 AM 10/16/99 -0700, you wrote: > >This is a series of submittals addressing basic Maintenance Repair > >and Restoration of European Vehicles, all of which owe homage to the > >German Engineering Philosophy, hereinafter refered to as the > >Deutsches Methode (DM). > > > >All Porsche air cooled designs, including of course VW, can be provided > >the best long term economy by understanding the mind of the good > >Doktor Porsche and others of the German technical schools who practice > >the DM. Vanagons have brakes, too, and are designed under the same > >school of practice. > > >Today we give you some brake inspection and service ideas and procedures. > > > >German disc brake rotors, calipers and pads and wheels, tires and > >suspensions are designed as a harmonious unit with regard to materials. > >If you use the soft black pads the vehicle originally came with, > >the original rotors will last through some 5 to 7 sets of pads > >before reaching the minimum specified thickness. Your brakes will > >never overheat or glaze or wear unevenly or score the rotors. > >That assumes you are renewing ALL the brake fluid yearly to prevent > >varnish, crud and coorosion from jaming the calipers which is the DM. > >It also assumes that you are not having the rotors turned every time > >you replace the pads, which is not the DM. > > > >In fact, in most of the German factory manuals it will say that if the > >rotors show glazing or cracking or scoring, replace them. Uneven > >but rounded wear patterns are not a problem when the proper pads are > >used, but put in a set of those wizbang metalics and not only do you > >eat up your rotors if you can stand the noise, they will never mate > >during the break-in process. There is no rotor turning procedure > >advised or given. You guys and gals check your Bently Official VW > >manuals and find the pages that describe the procedure for the > >tuning of rotors. Take all day if you like. > > > >The brake specialty shops either have never read the factory procedures > >or choose to ignore them. Every rotor gets turned every time. This > >gaurantees you will never get more than three sets of pads per rotor > >replacement because most of the rotor width is taken off with the > >lathe. Of course, if you are interested is selling rotors, that's the > >way to do it. If you appreciate the economy of the DM, it's wrong. > > > >You say you don't like that black dust on your wheels all the time. > >DM says if your wheels are dirty, wash them. Rarely if ever will > >you find these German pads or rotors at the FLAPS. There you will > >get parts designed to be cheap cause that's what sells best in > >America. Why do you suppose there are no NAPA stores in Germany??? > >Cause the German on the street will not buy Pakistani iron for > >his properly engineered vehicle. German materials engineering is > >not a triffling activity. If he wants an improvement in braking > >he goes for the even more expensive factory update set of calipers > >rotors, pads, wheels, tires and suspension as a harmoniously > >designed package. They don't just stick in a wizbang set of pads > >to "see what happens" or cause they're cheaper, which is not the DM. > > > >My 78 Mercedes 280CE now has 60,000 original miles. I put in the > >third set of pads last year. The rotors are original and show 0.5mm > >wear. They have another mm or more to go before they will need > >replacing. They never have nor will they ever be turned on a lathe > >to help shorten their life. I flush the brake fluid before it turns > >brown. They never make noise. They never pull unevenly. This is the > >result of the DM. > > > >A large percentage of the brake work I do every year is associated > >with a recent trip to the Midas shop or fluid as black as carbon. > >If one caliper or cylinder is leaking due to contaminated fluid > >the WHOLE SYSTEM is contaminated. If you fix the one leak you have > >a repeat customer for the other cylinders/calipers as they begin > >to leak in the months ahead. How economical is that???? > > > >I've only had one comeback in the last ten years on a brake job. > >The rear pads on this Mercedes sedan were at the 2mm wear limit. > >The rotors were just thick enough that they could be expected to > >last one more set of pads before reaching the minimum specified > >thickness. I put in a new set of factory pads. Client complained > >a few weeks later of squeeking. This was an occasional little > >itsy bitsy squeek just as the vehicle came to a stop. > > > >I replaced the rotors and conditioned the pads with abrasive. > >Problem solved. Let's see, that's one problem in perhaps a > >coupla hundred brake jobs. This is the kind of efficasy provided > >by the DM. > > > >Stubborn rigorous adherence to specifications and procedures established > >by the team of German engineers who designed the vehicle is not > >an option if the DM is to be honored. The problems come with > >compromise. > > > >Questions, anyone?????? > >Doktor Tim > >Maintenance Repair and Restoration of European Vehicles > >San Juan Island, WA > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To leave the list, send an UNSUBSCRIBE message to TYPE2-REQUEST@TYPE2.COM > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Doktor Tim > Maintenance Repair and Restoration of European Vehicles > San Juan Island, WA

Hi Doktor Tim,

I'd like to have you service my Syncro. Not that I value the DM(and the resulting cost)so much but to see San Juan Island ! What's you DM labor rate? Your statements reminded me of the following:

How many Kraut engineers does it take to replace a friggin' light bulb!

NONE - IF it was designed, manufactured, installed & operated to German specifications !

Regards, JP


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