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Date:         Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:06:55 PST
Reply-To:     Tony Peet <tpvw@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Tony Peet <tpvw@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Fwd: Michelin Agilis sizes, info ( a bit long)
Comments: cc: vw4x4@fyi.net
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Eric wrote:

>>Are these tires 205/70-14? 195/75-14? or 185/75-14? Any >>place we can see the tread design? How is the noise? ride quality?

See the Michelin Web Page that Doug posted (below) for a detailed picture of the tread design and a cutaway drawing of the tire construction.

I experience no noise problem with these tires. If you were wondering whether they have that "snow tire "moan/rumble", they do not.

As for ride quality, they corner and hold the road in cross winds EXCELLENTLY. Said differently, it's rare when I'm affected significantly by even strong crosswinds/big trucks etc. They also make emergency lane changes at highway speeds much safer (something I was very concerned about). The van still sways a little, but it tracks in right away and leans only a bit: there is not that sensation of the rear tires arriving in the new lane a few seconds after the front! I tested this a lot. I would feel confident -- though not happy about -- making an abrupt swerve at 60 mph. That is not something I experienced with any other tires I've tried.

The tires are SOMEWHAT stiff: if you require a REALLY cushy smooth American car/truck ride, you might be disappointed. (Indeed, this is why many American "Light Truck" (LT) tires are NOT suitable for the Vanagon: Americans like that softer ride and so the sidewalls are kept softer to provide it: exactly the opposite of the reinforced sidewall the Vanagon needs.) The good news though, with their high MAX psi (55) and load capacity (1709lbs/tire) -- there is a lot of room to play within a range of tire pressures to get the ride closer to what you want/need. These days, I keep mine at 43 all around. The plaque on my Syncro Westy recommends 43 front and 48 rear. I'm still experimenting.

Off road, I think these tires are GREAT and a few times I've experienced them as really bringing out the best in my Syncro. They are extremely rugged and tough (one of Michelin's target markets for this tire is Africa), and can often -- not always -- eat up the bumps. I do not worry much about going over rocks etc.and belive they can really take a beating. I also think they offer SLIGHTLY more stability for those horrible moments of having to go sideways across a hill -- even a small bump (!) -- in a Vanagon...but not much.

I am going to say one thing AGAIN because I am concerned that it is not emphasized enough on the list: REINFORCED SIDEWALLS ARE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR VANAGONS BECAUSE THEIR HIGH CENTER OF GRAVITY AND NARROW TRACK PUTS EXCESSIVE FORCES ON THE SIDEWALLS! (Stand up and lean to one side and then imagine what would happen if your bones/ligaments etc were "mushy"!)

I've noticed in recent posts that some list members reported 'cracks in the sidewalls' -- that is why it happens. The folks at Michelin have had more than a few of the wrong tires on Vanagons returned to them with cracked sidewalls, which CAN (and I don't want to be alarmist here, but just inform) lead to what they call something like 'bead failure' (the inability of the bead to keep the tire on the rim I think) and resulting 'catastrophic blowout.' Not a pretty picture, not likely to happen, but a possibility in cases of extreme wear and something the list needs to be more aware of in my opinion.

This is why Michelin corporate was so adamant about the Agilis on the phone with me. One tech guy was not quite, but nearly, hysterical.

Finally, the size I bought was the (Michelin) recommended 185R. They DO make a 195, but its load capacity is way excessive for the Vanagon. The approved rim widths for these tires is 5.0 inches to 6.0 inches.

I hope this helps, and please, let's be more conscientious about informing people - especially new list members/owners -- about the sidewall considerations in tire shopping/purchasing -- irrespective of what brand they chose.

Tony

P.S. I just looked through my notes and want to clarify something. The official Michelin tire specifications data book about the 185R 14C Agilis 61 99R TL tire reads: " The subject tire is the replacement tire available for the VW Vanagons which have recommended rear axle inflation pressure of 41psi or higher." This page was mailed to me by one of the customer service reps at 800 MICHELIN. The notice was dated March 4, 1999.

>From: "Fitz-Randolph, Douglas" <dfrandolph@TALKAM.NET> >Reply-To: "Fitz-Randolph, Douglas" <dfrandolph@TALKAM.NET> >To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >Subject: Michelin Agilis sizes, info... >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:41:38 -0500 > >If you're curious about the Michelin Agilis, and >don't feel like actually calling Michelin, go to > >http://www.michelin.com/us/eng/news/agilis/3.htm > >(Extra credit challenge: Try to navigate to this page >from http://www.michelin.com/ - good luck!!) > >Doug Fitz-Randolph >Yarmouth, ME >'90 Syncro

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