If they are really pumping up to a normal, firm pedal after one stroke I'd = say adjustment of the rear shoes is the most likely culprit, but perhaps not = in the way you might expect -- to whit:
 
Another thing to consider is drum size. You = should get them measured - maximum allowable inside diameter is 253.5, this = considers the final allowed machined thickness after turning (253mm) plus .5mm wear = after that. This symptom is typical of drums that are oversized, or even = just approaching the limit. Anything over 253mm is time to start considering = new drums. Add the fact that those brake shoes are nearing = their limit, and you don't have to look any farther into the hydraulic side of the = system for the source of your squish.
 
Used to be you could replace the brake shoes with oversized shoes - they used = to be available from the dealer in two oversizes, and you could just = have the brake drum turned to match the first or second oversize. This way there = was always the correct relationship between the arc of the shoe and the arc = of the drum. Unfortunately, oversized shoes are a thing of the past (as far as = I know). So now, the inner arc of the drum gets bigger while the arc of the shoe = gets smaller, to the point where the self adjusters can't compensate anymore. =
 
Or maybe someone installed the rear adjusters on the wrong sides? Wouldn't = be the first time. Although if that's the case, you can usually get the things = adjusted - the adjustment just doesn't last long, as they work in reverse, = loosening the adjustment with each push of the pedal.
 
Having said all that, I have to admit the possibility still exists that some = weird hydraulic event MIGHT be occurring in the master cylinder, but I doubt = it - especially if the first premise listed above holds = true.
 
Good luck!
 
Coby
 
Valley Wagonworks
"Intimately acquainted with VW Vans since = 1959"

Volkswagen = Bus, Vanagon, Westfalia and Eurovan
Repair and Service = Specialists

1535 Sir = Francis Drake Blvd., San Anselmo, CA 94933
Voice:(415) = 457-5628
Fax: (415) 457-0967
http://wagonworks.com
mailto:contact@wagonworks.com<= /FONT>

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing = List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf Of BRENT CHRISTENSEN
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 2:50 = PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Mushy brake pedal question

Thanks Stuart:

>Brent, pull up the parking brake and see if you = get a firm pedal on the
>first pump.  If so, = your  rear brakes are out of adjustment.  If not,
>you could try replacing all the hoses.

Yep - this helps, so I did adjust the rears.  = Problem is, the pedal is still mushy and the rear brakes are so tight they are now = dragging.  Bulging hoses would not "pump up" would they?  I = would think that they would swell and then shrink with each successive pedal = pump.  The symptom I am getting is that the brakes will = pressurize after the first pump. 

I am wondering if it might be the master = cylinder...???  If the seals were bad, it would act like this, right?

>Did you put the calipers on the correct = sides?  It may be impossible to
>switch them on the = Vanagon, but be sure the bleed nipple is at the top
>of the caliper or you will always have trapped air.

I only do one side at a time for exactly this sort = of reason!  :-)  Even if they were on the wrong side, I bleed = the brakes with an EZBleed and attach the drain hose to ball-type check = valve submersed in brake fluid.

Brent Christensen
Manager = Strategic Programs
InfoGenesis
www.infogenesis.com
(805) 681-8600 = xt. 414



-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart MacMillan [mailto:stuart@cobaltgroup.com]=
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2000 2:46 PM =
To: BRENT CHRISTENSEN
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Mushy = brake pedal question






At 4-6mm  it is time to replace your rears = anyway.  No special tools are
needed, just = patience.  Do one side at a time so you have the other for
reference.  Have the drum turned too if there is any = scoring or a ridge
on the outer edge.

> BRENT CHRISTENSEN wrote:
>
> Well, my battle against the mushy brake = pedal continues...
>
> After completing a *complete* front brake job (new rotors,
> semi-metallic pads, caliper rebuild), I adjusted up the = rear brakes in
> an attempt to get rid of = excess pedal travel.   The pedal feels
> = better, but it still improves after pumping once before stopping.
> Unfortunately, the car is now pulling a bit to one side, = and after my
> 12 mi commute this AM, I noticed = that both drums were HOT.  Guess I
> tightened = them up too much. :-(
>
> How the heck am I going to get the pedal to feel better???  I = have
> bled the system to death (In fact I used an = EZ-Bleed and ran about 1
> qt of fluid through the system.)  Even used the "wife method" with no
> sign of air in the system.  No matter what I do, = the pedal still
> always seems mushy on the first = pump, then stiffens up to where it
> feels it should = be.
>
> BTW, = the rear linings have about 4-6 mm left, but are a tad glazed  (I =
> didn't have time to change the linings)  - also, = will a normal brake
> tool from a FLAPS work on = the Vanagon drum brakes (you know, the one
> = with the spring stretcher on once side and the spring
> depresser/rotater on the other side)
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Brent Christensen
> '89 GL Syncro Westy
> Santa Barbara, = CA
>

--
Stuart MacMillan =
Manager, Case Program
800-909-8244 = ext. 8208

Getting your share of the Net yet?
http://cobaltgroup.com
http://UsedEquipNet.com =