Date:    Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:22:36 PDT
From:    Mark Dorm <
mark_hb@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro] duel fuel, gas or LPG/propane

>----- Original Message -----
>Subject: Re: = [Syncro] duel fuel, gas or LPG/propane
> >I finally got around to = installing a propane fuel system on my 1987
>syncro westy.

So whats your = other fuel: gas or diesel? Can you use a duel fuel setup with
propane/gas, = or propane/diesel, or both? Is this something People are doing
a lot = where you live???
 
>>> It's gasoline and Propane.  A diesel engine will not run on 100% = propane, maybe 20% propane 80% diesel.

> Its a duel fuel system = so the original digifant is still in place
> and functional.  You = just flip an electrical switch on the dash to
> change over, even while driving.
> Propane in Canada is a lot cheaper than gas or diesel, = less tax.  >In
>Alberta its almost half the price of gas. Range = has almost >doubled also.
>To bad I don't have 11:1 CR to = take
> >advantage of the 115 octane though.

Are you talking about compression? Like I've heard of 10:1 - but you're
saying that propane = has really high octane.... Is this always the case with
propane??? And = since it has high octane, then if propane can be found
everywhere (like even = in Mexico), then couldn't you more readily use an
engine (other than the = WBX) that demands high octane (like some of the five
cylinders do) if it = were converted to propane???

>>> Yes, I'm talking about = compression ratio.  Propane in North America is high octane. I guess you could = use any gasoline engine, not only high compression.  On other conversions = I've done, 10:1  jetta gli for example, you can advance the timing  several degrees.  Propane also works good with turbocharging, because of the octane.

> Overall cost = per mile is same or a little less than the 1.6 TD westy > >I
>had, but = there is a LOT more power. Around here it seems there are > = >more
>places to buy propane than diesel, so it is a practical motor > fuel = (where
>I live that is).

But if petrol goes through the roof, then propane conversions would be all
the more attractive, especially if you can = use them on gas engines...

>>> = Propane will increase proportionately in price as well of course.  In the = Netherlands (and elsewhere) you can/could buy a VW golf with factory propane, but I = think it is propane only. 
 
>I did the instalation myself. It costs about $2000 CDN to get = it done >with
>new parts, so its generally not worth it on a 13 year = old >vehicle. The
>break even time comes around 120,000 = kms.

What does $2000 CDN translate into American dollars?
>>>Actually, the other day I called around the = country and could find no shop that would do it.  They lose money trying to do a custom installation.  Or, nobody would pay = them the $2000 US dollars they would need to do it.
 
>There are no "bolt on" kits available for the vanagon = so you have to >make
>some parts yourself, not to dificult though. I = did it over a >long weekend.
>You will need a lathe and mig welder. No = internal >engine modifications are
>needed, and only very = little changed on the >air intake tract. Nothing
>permanent is = done.

No "bolt on" kits anywhere in the world??? They're not doing = this
anywhere??? And would this pass smog no problem???

>>> Not that I = know of.

>The engine runs smoother and is noticably quieter on the highway.
>The end result = is a rare combination of a spacious multipurpose 4wd
> >camping = vehicle which is also economical to drive. The downside is >that
>the = vehicle is still underpowered by today's standards. Weekend >ski = traffic
>on the highways around here seem to move at 75 mph. My >first choice of
>powerplants would be the TDI, but that is too much >money = and work for me
>at this time.
>
>Gary Lee

You're first choice would be a diesel TDI.... so I guess that means = you
can't combine petrol and propane in a duel fuel setup...
>>> see above
Or are you just trying to save fuel costs on both ends of the stick???
 
>>> I like the TDI (or any new OBD III engine) because it = is a modern engine with lots of technology in it.  The water = >>>boxer with digifant is inefficient and old fashioned by today's = standards.  Also very dirty, from an emissions point of >>>view.  According = to my  old gas analyser, propane burns cleaner than the waterboxer/digifant.  Just my >>>opinion .......
Gary