Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 10:14:16 -0700
Reply-To: BRENT CHRISTENSEN <bchristensen@INFOGENESIS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: BRENT CHRISTENSEN <bchristensen@INFOGENESIS.COM>
Subject: Engine conversions (Was: I've seen the Tii conversion completed)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Very good points, and I think this is sound advice for anyone considering a
swap that cannot handle their own repairs to some degree. Having done
probably a half dozen engine swaps over the years (never with a VW, though)
I can say that I have never done one that was "easy" or without some level
of initial pain.
You have to realize that you are trying to out-think a team of professional
automotive engineers that figured out an entire system for a production car
(with all the attendant benefits and compromises). By changing the engine,
you change one element of that system and must realize that it will have a
cascading effect on the rest of the system (i.e. cooling, brakes, fuel
delivery, etc. etc. etc.).
Many of these reasons are what I think makes the Tii conversion interesting
at first blush - it comes out of a Vanagon after all - so that team of
professional engineers has tackled many of the "system" issues already (at
least one would hope so).
I certainly know that my Syncro Westy is woefully underpowered (to the point
of being dangerous at times) and although I have totally adjusted my driving
style (and expectations), I still wish for more power and torque every time
I drive it. (BTW, I have driven non-Westy 2wd Vanagons, and they are very
adequately powered, IMHO)
Will I consider an engine swap in 5 years when Klaus is ready for a new
power plant? Definitely. By that time, WBX parts are probably going to
start getting more scarce, and "performance" parts will likely be almost
non-existent. I certainly hope I am wrong, but we are already starting to
see the signs of this with the 1.9 L Vanagons. I am just hoping that all
the "kinks" will have been worked out and there will be a perfect VW
replacement that offers 190 hp, uses stock VW parts, fits in the space under
the deck lid, does not reduce ground clearance on a Syncro, and mates up to
the original transmission! :-)
Brent Christensen
'89 GL Syncro Westy
Santa Barbara, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Davidson [mailto:wdavidson@thegrid.net]
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 10:00 AM
To: BRENT CHRISTENSEN; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Re: I've seen the Tii conversion completed
Brent,
Yes it would be great to see all the engine conversion options organized on
a web site...
But I think it is also important for people to know what kind of a choice
they are making when the do a conversion.
That is, the choice to deal with the smog laws in their state which may not
allow conversion... far better to know this before than after.
Also, it is important to know that after a conversion it may be had to get a
mechanic to work on your engine... I doubt any VW dealer would touch it...
and the best VW mechanic I know (George of German Motors in Tahoe City) said
of conversions: "We don't do them, and we won't touch one anyone else has
done."
And even if you find a local mechanic that will work on it, what happens
when you are far from home... who will you find to work on a conversions out
in Utah or Wyoming or....
Perhaps the only people that can live with the service situation on a
conversion are people who are committed to doing their own engine work and
people who have a mechanic that will work on it and they don't drive all
that far from where their mechanic is located.
It's easy to get excited about a new/better engine... it's a nice dream....
but there are some realities that are best considered before committing to a
conversion.
My 2 cents...
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: BRENT CHRISTENSEN
To: 'Bill Davidson' ; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: Re: I've seen the Tii conversion completed
Yes, I know it will be a while before it is a viable option in California
(that is probably an understatement given the dealings I have had with CARB
in the past).
I am not thinking about it for me (I have a VW Canada motor with only about
35,000 miles on it right now, so hopefully it will be a long while before I
need a conversion!) I am thinking more in terms of inclusion in the
www.vanagon.com/info/articles web site area. I think information on the
various options and peoples' impressions of their choices would be a
valuable asset to the site.
Thanks Bill.
Brent Christensen
'89 GL Syncro Westy
Santa Barbara, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Davidson [mailto:wdavidson@thegrid.net]
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 9:42 AM
To: BRENT CHRISTENSEN; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Re: I've seen the Tii conversion completed
Brent,
I wouldn't get too excited about the conversion...
I know you live in California.
Can you imagine what it would take to get a conversion past the
----- Original Message -----
From: BRENT CHRISTENSEN
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: I've seen the Tii conversion completed
Thanks for the great information. I know there are a lot of people watching
this topic very closely.
The comment about the cruise control puzzles me - does this mean that there
is no cruise control option in South Africa, or is it just not included in
the kit?
Brent Christensen
'89 GL Syncro Westy
Santa Barbara, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf Of A
& C Grobey
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 9:23 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: I've seen the Tii conversion completed
If anyone is curious, I got a look at a completed Tii conversion on
Thursday. My sister bought the kit and had it installed by her mechanic. I
stopped by to visit the mechanic and took it for a test drive. My thoughts
and the mechanics comments are as follows:
Positive things:
This is a very clean conversion. It looks like it belongs there. The
dipstick and coolant are still accessible through the license. The engine
fits with lots of room to spare and no need to raise the deck lid.
The engine idles very well. There is less vibration than a WBX on idle.
The oil filter is very accessible and easy to reach.
You use the stock muffler/Cat and the stock fuel injection.
Not so Positive things:
The air Intake to the Fuel injector just after the air filter has two plugs
in it. It seems like these would blow out pretty easily on a backfire or
even just vibration. The air filter is also hard to reach.
There is no cruise control option enabled. I think they'll have to rig
something.
The camshaft pulley seemed off center and kind of warbled a bit.
No Oxy sensor. Could be a problem for DEQ.
The mechanic liked the kit and the way it ran. Both of us drove it up a
very steep hill near his shop and were impressed with the power band. We
were able to accelerate from 55 up to 65 on the hill. In my van, you can
only accelerate to about 58. The mechanic did not have the best opinion of
Peter (the guy who sells the kit). His first complaint was that they had a
bad transistor coming off the coil. The replacement was hard and very slow
to get. Once they got it, it wasn't a Telefunkt or Bosch but some cheap
Taiwanese transistor. He also told me that the instructions had bad info on
the scan tool. Other than those few problems, the install was pretty
smooth. He just didn't like the way Peter didn't seem so eager to help.
They were led to believe this kit had been installed many times before, but
the reality is this was his first US shipment. They were in it for 30 hours
and they figure the next time will take about 20.
I am very interested in the kit for my Carat. However, I would definitely
miss the low-end torque. My Waterboxer is running too well right now (knock
on wood) to think about it just yet!
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