Date:         Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:03:44 -0600
Reply-To:     Gary <glee@ultralink.com>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Gary <glee@ultralink.com>
Subject:      : Re: [Syncro] duel fuel, gas or LPG / propane
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

Date:    Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:22:36 PDT
From:    Mark Dorm <mark_hb@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Syncro] duel fuel, gas or LPG/propane

>----- Original Message -----
>Subject: Re: [Syncro] duel fuel, gas or LPG/propane
> >I finally got around to installing a propane fuel system on my 1987
>syncro westy.

So whats your other fuel: gas or diesel? Can you use a duel fuel setup with
propane/gas, or propane/diesel, or both? Is this something People are doing
a lot where you live???

>>> It's gasoline and Propane.  A diesel engine will not run on 100% propane, maybe 20% propane 80% diesel.

> Its a duel fuel system so the original digifant is still in place
> and functional.  You just flip an electrical switch on the dash to
> change over, even while driving.
> Propane in Canada is a lot cheaper than gas or diesel, less tax.  >In
>Alberta its almost half the price of gas. Range has almost >doubled also.
>To bad I don't have 11:1 CR to take
> >advantage of the 115 octane though.

Are you talking about compression? Like I've heard of 10:1 - but you're
saying that propane has really high octane.... Is this always the case with
propane??? And since it has high octane, then if propane can be found
everywhere (like even in Mexico), then couldn't you more readily use an
engine (other than the WBX) that demands high octane (like some of the five
cylinders do) if it were converted to propane???

>>> Yes, I'm talking about compression ratio.  Propane in North America is high octane. I guess you could use any gasoline engine, not only high compression.  On other conversions I've done, 10:1  jetta gli for example, you can advance the timing  several degrees.  Propane also works good with turbocharging, because of the octane.

> Overall cost per mile is same or a little less than the 1.6 TD westy > >I
>had, but there is a LOT more power. Around here it seems there are > >more
>places to buy propane than diesel, so it is a practical motor > fuel (where
>I live that is).

But if petrol goes through the roof, then propane conversions would be all
the more attractive, especially if you can use them on gas engines...

>>> Propane will increase proportionately in price as well of course.  In the Netherlands (and elsewhere) you can/could buy a VW golf with factory propane, but I think it is propane only.  

>I did the instalation myself. It costs about $2000 CDN to get it done >with
>new parts, so its generally not worth it on a 13 year old >vehicle. The
>break even time comes around 120,000 kms.

What does $2000 CDN translate into American dollars?
>>>Actually, the other day I called around the country and could find no shop that would do it.  They lose money trying to do a custom installation.  Or, nobody would pay them the $2000 US dollars they would need to do it.
 
>There are no "bolt on" kits available for the vanagon so you have to >make
>some parts yourself, not to dificult though. I did it over a >long weekend.
>You will need a lathe and mig welder. No internal >engine modifications are
>needed, and only very little changed on the >air intake tract. Nothing
>permanent is done.

No "bolt on" kits anywhere in the world??? They're not doing this
anywhere??? And would this pass smog no problem???

>>> Not that I know of.

>The engine runs smoother and is noticably quieter on the highway.
>The end result is a rare combination of a spacious multipurpose 4wd
> >camping vehicle which is also economical to drive. The downside is >that
>the vehicle is still underpowered by today's standards. Weekend >ski traffic
>on the highways around here seem to move at 75 mph. My >first choice of
>powerplants would be the TDI, but that is too much >money and work for me
>at this time.
>
>Gary Lee

You're first choice would be a diesel TDI.... so I guess that means you
can't combine petrol and propane in a duel fuel setup... 
>>> see above
Or are you just trying to save fuel costs on both ends of the stick???

>>> I like the TDI (or any new OBD III engine) because it is a modern engine with lots of technology in it.  The water >>>boxer with digifant is inefficient and old fashioned by today's standards.  Also very dirty, from an emissions point of >>>view.  According to my  old gas analyser, propane burns cleaner than the waterboxer/digifant.  Just my >>>opinion .......

Gary


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