Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 21:55:23 -0700
Reply-To: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Subject: Re: HELP!! What is the State of my Title?
In-Reply-To: <003401c1df7f$e1b8a660$6d00a8c0@mn.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Oh my - what a complicated system you have. I know this isn't helping your
situation any, but in Canada we do not have vehicle titles. In my glove
compartment is a 'registration' and my 'insurance'. The insurance says that
I have insurance that is valid throughout Canada and the USA and that I am
covered for up to X million dollars for liability ($200,000 is the legal
minimum) and Y deductible for Fire / Theft / Vandalism and Z deductible for
damage that I do to the vehicle. The registration is attached to my
insurance and gets printed off every time I get my insurance renewed. It
has the basic information of; my name, address, vehicle make, model, weight,
colour and VIN number - that's it.
If I was to buy a vehicle, all I need is the registration and a form from my
insurance company (ICBC - gov't insurance) that is basically a formal
bill-of-sale with my name, drivers licence number, the buyer, their DL
number and the amount the vehicle is sold for.
If I bought a vehicle from my friend who lives in the same province all I
need is the registration and the official bill of sale, I go to the
insurance place and pay my 7.5% provincial tax on the purchase price, $28
for the registration fee and that's it. If I want to drive it, I need to
buy insurance.
If the vehicle comes from out of the province I need a signed bill of sale,
mechanical inspection and a copy of the registration - pay the above fees
and I am done.
The only thing that I have a title to is my house...
David Marshall
Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
4356 Quesnel Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
- Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions
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-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Budd Premack
Sent: April 8, 2002 9:35 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: HELP!! What is the State of my Title?
Can anyone direct me to a source to title an 85 Westy, which has SERIOUS
title problems?
The Background....
Last year I obtained an eBay van from a CA dealer. The body was fine, but
it had severe engine problems, so it was towed to MN by my trusty 86 Syncro.
(Slow and steady wins the race.) Sometime (a long time) later it ran fine
after engine surgery.
The CA dealer directed me to apply for a MN title once the van was
operational in MN. Because a non-functioning vehicle cannot pass the smog
test, a CA dealer cannot sell it to an individual. I arranged for a
transfer via Bill of Sale from the CA dealer to a MN dealer who is a friend.
The plan was for the MN dealer to get a MN title and then transfer it to me.
The Problem....
The van had been junked in CA, resulting in the CA DMV canceling its title.
The CA DMV wrote me a letter indicating this title status. (Want to guess
how easy that was to procure?) Last summer (with the CA DMV letter and
Bills of Sale in hand) my friendly MN dealer was able to obtain MN RV plates
(which expired 2-28- 02) while submitting a request for a MN title.
However, after a wait of several months, MN would not issue a new MN title
as there was obviously still a record of the CA title. (After a canceled
title has been stale for at least 3 years, MN will waive this requirement,
but who wants to wait!) MN indicated that I needed to get the title
reissued by CA, as MN wouldn't issue a title for a vehicle that had (that is
the operative word) a title in any other state..
In order to obtain a reissued title, CA stated I needed a CA Junk Receipt
and Bills of Sale from all interested parties in the chain of title. I
already had all the requisite Bills of Sale. (Hey, do you think I am a
complete dummy for buying a van without a title? All who answered "yes" can
commence laughing promptly.) After numerous unsuccessful attempts at
securing the Junk Receipt from the CA dealer, I was able to locate the prior
dealer, who had officially junked the van and then sold it to my dealer.
The "junk" dealer was extremely cooperative and provided me with a copy of
the elusive Junk Receipt.
Further communication with the Special Field Office of the CA DMV resulted
in their following cooperation in my efforts to revive the CA title:
1. Permission was granted to avoid the smog test (as the van was to be only
titled, but not registered, in CA, as the intention was to register it in
MN, which has no smog test).
2. Permission was granted to have the brake and light inspection done by an
official state inspection outside of CA. (Naturally, MN has no vehicle
inspection of any sort, so I guess I could go to IA to find an official
state inspector.)
3. However (We all knew there was going to be a however, didn't we?), the
regular vehicle inspection could only be done by a CA DMV official or by a
member of the CA Highway Patrol (CHIPS). Unfortunately, they don't make
house calls. (Apparently, the rules for inspection of previously junked
vehicles are strict in CA.)
The Solution....
This saga leads to several interesting choices:
1. Transport the van to CA for the vehicle inspection. Of course it can't
be driven there as it has no current license plates.
2. Park the van for 2 more years to comply with the MN 3 year rule.
3. Drive the van with plates "borrowed" from a junked van of similar
vintage, and possibly attempt to switch all of the serial numbers. (This is
known as the witness protection system.)
4. Arrange for an accident, and collect the fair market value from my
insurance company. (Since all of us Listees know how fair and generous
insurance companies typically are in valuing 15 year old Westys, this
technique is a leading candiate if one can omit any ethics issues.)
5. Ask the List for help in finding a cooperative venue where the van can
be titled and then re-registered in MN.
HELP!!!!! HELP!!!!!
Can anybody hear a voice crying in the governmental bureaucratic wilderness?
p.s. For those of you who remember me from my past Listee life, please note
my new email address: bpremack@mn.rr.com
Budd Premack
86 Syncro (and a host of others)
Minneapolis, MN (Land of Sky-Blue Waters)
