Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 19:06:29 -0800
Reply-To: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tough to start on cold mornings
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
So you were an Alaska pilot? Saw a lot of planes and worked on them also
when I was 15 with my Dad who had his own aircraft maintenance business. I
once asked him why he worked up there in twenty below on airplanes and he
said "because no one else wants to".
Even the Eskimos don't want to work when it gets that cold.
Digging up some memories here- frozen Yukon. three feet of snow- one mile
trek across the frozen river carrying a box of gear after another for a week
stay at a fish camp while we repair the broken landing gear on a 180.
The little stove in the cabin, an army "Yukon" stove, barely was enough heat
to take your mittens off.
No one was out there for miles but us- a very eerily quiet winter landscape,
walking around the abandoned fish camp buildings.
I have never gone to the homestead Dad told me about that is still up on the
Yukon where he left 80 acres, a cabin, and a airstip. Maybe someday I'll go
see it.
Robert
1982 Westfalia
>From: John Rodgers <j_rodgers@CHARTER.NET>
>Reply-To: John Rodgers <j_rodgers@CHARTER.NET>
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Tough to start on cold mornings
>Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:50:39 -0600
>
>Solid oil at -47??? Prol'ly!
>
>It's interesting to note that pilots in Alaska carry custom fit
>insulated cowling covers with zippers, pull straps, and bungee cords
>attached to keep the heat inside the cowling during down time during
>cold weather. They are also needed when preheating the engine to get it
>started the first time for the day. On the old radial engine aircraft
>there was an oil dilution valve available to squirt gasoline into the
>engine oil just before shutdown in really cold weather. There was a card
>with a temperature/dilution table that told how long to squirt the
>gasoline for a given expected temperature. 50 WT oil can completely
>seize an engine in severe cold.
>
>The company I flew for stopped all flying of piston aircraft except for
>emergencies when the temperature on the ground got to -35F.
>
>I use to have a picture of my Cessna 180 with the propeller in the
>horizontal position and I'm doing pullups on it!!! Temp was -45F.
>
>
>John Rodgers
>88 GL Driver
>
>Jeffrey Schwaia wrote:
>>As for air-cooled VW's and cold weather, I had a '66 VW Bug when I lived
>>in
>>Bozeman, Montana and the only time that bad boy didn't start was one
>>January
>>morning when the temperature dipped to -47? F. Just a loud click. I
>>think
>>the oil had become solid.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
>>Of John Rodgers
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 2:26 PM
>>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>Subject: Re: Tough to start on cold mornings
>>
>>
>>I just have to tack a big "AMEN" to what Robert says here.
>>
>>I lived in Fairbanks also at one time. Battery hot plates and block
>>heaters were the order of the day, and sometimes that was not enough. A
>>blanket over the hood on conventional cars helped some.
>>
>>Another thing, not engine related was the flat-sided tires you rode on
>>for the first trip out for the day. At times it would get so cold the
>>tires were very slow to flex out so for the first little bit, you would
>>go down the road "bumpyty, bumpyty, bumpyty" as the flat side went round
>>and round until internal friction in the tire would produce enough heat
>>to give some flexibility. Of course at those kinds of temperatures you
>>couldn't feel the heat, it was just there.
>>
>>Interesting times. In winter valleys were colder, hillsides warm. After
>>all, the colder the air, the more dense the air, the more dense, the
>>heavier, the heavier air would settle to the bottom and literally flow
>>downhill int to the low spots. Druing really cold days, smoke would not
>>rise from a chimney, just go up about six inches then bend over and flow
>>to the ground, the heat loss was so great and so rapid. Water vapor from
>>the cars would hang and gound level and form "Ice Fog" where the traffic
>>was heavy. Vapor from the jets landing and taking off at the airport
>>would cause the airport to "Fog In" and after a time nobody could take
>>off or land.
>>
>>Interesting times, hey Robert!
>>
>>BTW, I never tried to operate a Volkswagen around Fairbanks back then.
>>They were still all air-cooled. Only south of the Alaska Range for me in
>>a VW - down in the banana belt!!
>>
>>John Rodgers
>>88 GL Driver
>>
>>Robert Keezer wrote:
>>
>>>Once the temperatures are in the twenties and lower, the ice can form in
>>>the
>>>lines. A bottle of heet or similar should be used.
>>>
>>>Also use lower weight oil. 20 -50 almost becomes tar when it gets below 0
>>>out. Your starter may be using all the available current just trying to
>>>overcome the cranking resistance of the engine, lowering the voltage
>>>below
>>>9.6 minumum voltage.
>>>
>>>For the FI system to function properly, voltage must be above this. If
>>>you
>>>hook up a voltmeter(preferably digital), if the voltage drops to 8 volts
>>
>>or
>>
>>>even lower, you aren't going to get it started .
>>>
>>>The battery also can have 50% less capacity at very cold temperatures.
>>>Two things, a crankcase heater and battery charger are needed to be on
>>>all
>>>night( automatic charger is best)when the really cold weather hits.
>>>
>>>I lived in Alaska five years including Fairbanks . Often the only way we
>>>could get an engine started was to aim a keroosene forced air space
>>>heater
>>>at it.There were long weeks of twenty below, and once the engine is
>>>running,
>>>you never turn it off.(unless you plug it in)
>>>
>>>Robert
>>>1982 Westfalia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Dan Erlandson <danoer1@ECLIPSE.NET>
>>>>Reply-To: Dan Erlandson <danoer1@ECLIPSE.NET>
>>>>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>Subject: Tough to start on cold mornings
>>>>Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:26:38 -0500
>>>>
>>>>So it was about 16 o F this morning in NJ and this was the second time
>>>>where
>>>>my wife had trouble starting the Van when it was down into the teens.
>>>>Don't
>>>>think we have had many mornings as cold as this one. The other time
>>>>it had
>>>>trouble was about 2 weeks ago. The van has been starting and running
>>>>fine
>>>>otherwise.
>>>>My wife tells me that it cranks, starts for a moment and then dies.
>>>>I've
>>>>come out both times and gotten it started by cranking it and keeping the
>>>>gas
>>>>pedal down. It has taken a few attempts but I have gotten it started
>>>>both
>>>>times... runs fine after that. Before she finally starts it sounds as
>>>>if
>>>>the engine is stuttering.. trying to start, but doesn't quite catch.
>>>>Turn
>>>>the key and it cranks normally and then skip, skip skip as it tries to
>>>>start.
>>>>I ran some fuel injector cleaner through last time this happened... and
>>>>just
>>>>last night the gas tank was down very low... into the reserve.
>>>>My battery is good (I think) and is about 2 years old (VW brand), the
>>>>coil
>>>>was replaced a few years ago using a FLAPS brand, and there is a Bosch
>>>>starter on it that we had put in about 3 years ago.
>>>>She has been running great otherwise.
>>>>
>>>>Anybody have some thoughts??? Thanks
>>>>--
>>>>Dan Erlandson
>>>>Flemington, NJ
>>>>danoer1@eclipse.net
>>>>91 VW Vanagon GL
>>>>99 VW Passat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Robert
>>>1982 Westfalia 1987 Wolfsburg
>>>
>>>_________________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
Robert
1982 Westfalia 1987 Wolfsburg
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