Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 01:47:51 -0600
Reply-To: Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stan Wilder <wilden1@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Mercedes 5cyl 300TD in Vanagon?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I'm an old time engine swapper.
First was a 48 Mercury engine into a 40 Ford Coupe in 1957. (I was in
high school).
I owned and operated an Automotive Speed Shop and Automotive Machine Shop
for about 8 years.
Through pure dumb luck we managed to set a ARHA Word record in an A Fuel
Roadster, American Bantam body, 90" wheelbase 301 Enderly Injected small
block Chevy engine.
Other racing involved inboard Hydroplanes using 60 HP ford V8s, 266 CID
Chevys, 40 CID Fageol and Crosley Engines (same thing).
My racing progressed into the AA Fuel Dragsters and Funny cars and below
the 6 second 1/4 mile pass in about 1965.
All that is non relative to the current discussion other than to say that
it brought many local boys around my business for engine swaps, high
performance equipment and machine shop services.
Recently I had some hands on experience as an assistant on installing a
Subaru engine in a Vanagon body.
The owner was a non mechanical fellow but he had technical electrical
experience that helped him sort through the wire loom stripping process
of the Subaru CPU to arrive at a confusing but workable wire loom.
He used the Kennedy components and they fit well.
The actual mounting of the engine wasn't a major stretch mechanically but
the conversion kept sucking his cash in the form of starters, exhaust
systems, minor Subaru components and his final cost was in the
neighborhood of $4000.00 in addition to the $4100.00 he had recently paid
for his Westy.
This vehicle if offered on Ebay would certainly not bring back his
investment.
I personally view his Westy as a white elephant, its not a vehicle I'd
ever consider purchasing.
Given an individual that acquires all the necessary parts could perform
the conversion themselves it leaves the open ended results that the only
resolution to problems relies solely on him because very few shops can
trouble shoot and repair such a conversion other than spark plugs and oil
changes.
The excitement of performing a conversion and bring ones van into *next
generation* is often very expensive.
I respect the in depth research that you've done on engines, horsepower,
dependability.
The Air Cooled and Water Cooled VW engines are well documented but it
still forces us to specialized shops for simple repairs.
Survival of many Vanagons and VW Busses is dependant on good information
the owners get from the list.
The thing that is most noticeable is that most list members don't want to
rebuild their own engines and aren't desirous of performing heavy
mechanical repairs.
Personally I just hate it when I have to repack wheel bearings or CV
joints and even though I've swapped out several engines and transmissions
over the eight years that I've had my Westy, I still find myself just
hating the thought of having to do these things myself. I have accepted
the intensive preventive maintenance required to keep my Westy
functioning and dependable.
My distaste for "doing it myself" has been exacerbated by my restoration
of several other Vanagons and now a 66 bus, but every repair other than
the rebuilding of my front suspension was well within my mechanical
abilities.
Since I'm retired I'm not pressed for time in making the necessary
repairs or dependant on the vehicles for daily transportation.
The VW van and Vanagon thing is relatively new to me.
Prior to 1995 when I bought my Westy I was one of the guys trading a
Cadillac or Continental ever few years when it got 75K on and fell from
the grace of a warranty.
I personally don't have any great admiration for Asian Engineering.
Much of what they have accomplished towards dependability arrives on
scene because of higher quality engine lubricants and better formulated
fuels.
I see their fuel injection systems as copies of Bosch, their braking
systems as copies of Bendix so all in all most of the good things are
plagiarized from American, German or British engineering.
Exorbitant is a fair expression of Asian car parts cost.
Many of the Asian engines have a self destruct factor with timing belt
replacement.
I am of the unmovable opinion that a properly rebuilt and maintained VW
engine, whether Type IV Air or Water cooled will deliver good service for
over 100k.
There are those that want a Hot Rod Vanagon and I just say "Go For It"
but beware the pitfalls of building something that will ultimately have
less resale value than your stock Vanagon.
I enjoy driving my nearly 20 year old Westy and choose to drive it most
of the time over my 92 Crown Victoria, 86 Olds Station wagon. I'm well
aware of its deficiencies in the area of power and a lack of air
conditioning and I've accepted those factors as part of the experience.
If someone new comes to the list it is their first impression that
everybody has a Vanagon, Westy or Syncro because they are immediately
confronted with banter about the various models.
Because of my location in Texas I seldom see another Vanagon on the road.
The Vanagon and Bus Population seems to be much stronger in the West,
Northwest and far East Coast.
With the on going conversations about engine swaps it often appears that
a swap is necessary to be caught up to your Vanagon peers.
I've never seen a conversion job priced out on the list .............. I
just wonder why.
Stan Wilder
83 Air Cooled Westfalia
On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 00:40:58 EST FrankGRUN@aol.com writes:
>
> In a message dated 12/18/02 12:18:31 AM, wilden1@juno.com writes:
>
> << I just think that its bad to put unreal dreams in the minds of
> people
> that hire out their mechanic work.
> It is just a goal they can never achieve. >>
>
> Stan,
>
> You have a very real point here that I don't often think about. My
> original
> comment, terse as it was for me, was only to note that my Westfalia
> was
> purchased new, delivered at the factory. When I encounter
> undocumented
> changes, I have only myself to blame!
>
> But back to your observation. I readily admit I enjoy the foray into
>
> engineering and welcome the opportunity to customize this already
> well
> designed machine to my own needs and wants. Often in this engine
> swap or
> redesign game, I suffer serious reversals. But its part of the
> whole
> experience. When I go to a shop for repairs, I am prepared to point
> out all
> the relevant changes, give them a sequence doc for things far
> removed from
> standard VW practice.
>
> On the other hand, those individuals who either don't do the
> engineering (by
> buying a kit) or paying a professional to implement the changes,
> miss this
> level of enjoyment! Trading cash for some of these experiences would
> seem a
> good to great idea at times. Unfortunately, many experiences with
> pricey kits
> seem less than fair to me. The TIICO smog theme is just
> unconscionable to me.
> The lack of stocked spares for key parts not part of the standard
> dealer
> inventory - amateurish. The lack of even Bentley quality
> installation
> material - shocking. The EuroSpec experience - sell a few and then
> abandon
> your clients - unbelievable. I'm waiting for Overland to sell their
> 50 units
> and then deny that they ever made them.
>
> Now the Kennedy/Subaru kit seems to make no claims for completeness.
> Just a
> set of parts offered to enable a swap. This seems a bit more above
> board to
> me. Still uses Japanese materials though. Recently had a chance to
> finally
> peruse an SAE paper on the Subaru engine technology and was very
> impressed.
> Certainly the 2.2 and 2.5 L engines are well worth the effort.
>
> Still the engine modification theme is a fascinating diversion.
> Simpler than
> designing the whole vehicle from the wheels up, but offering a sense
> of
> accomplishment when all comes together as a unique expression of
> ones
> personality. But I must agree that those with modest means, who must
> offer
> cash to a pro to put it together face a high probability of being
> burned. In
> this case, careful maintenance of stock propulsion is the more
> judicious
> choice.
>
> When I first chose to invigorate the diesel spinner in the tail of
> my
> vehicle, I wanted more vigor (and AC). I really didn't think about
> reliability. The diesel was boringly bulletproof, in my experience.
> Easy to
> drive. Limited set of options. As for the throttle, there was only
> full off
> and full on. The brake was on or off (also full thrust). Speed was
> controlled
> by choice of gear, time available and the sign and magnitude of the
> upcoming
> grade. My change to the inline 4 gasoline system has likewise been
> bulletproof.
>
> Now, I found my older A/C buses to be quite reliable. The
> performance of my
> 1600 cc powered Safare was very similar to the Vanagon diesel.
> Slower than
> sheep-dip. After adding the Corvair engine and drivetrain, this
> whale
> triggered adrenaline readily and profusely. The 1.8L digifant
> conversion is
> sprightly but not dangerous. The Turbo Audi project is designed to
> trigger
> stimulants - and provide another opportunity to get it right.
>
> With all this interest in turbos and the misconceptions being
> pontificated
> here, I'll have to peck out a response there too.
>
> Frank Grunthaner
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
| 
