Date:         Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:02:53 -0700
Reply-To:     Vince S <gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Vince S <gipsyflies@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Would you replace your water pump if:
Comments: To: jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM
In-Reply-To:  <CAEOIPKOOCKNBBDDDMBPOELPFGAA.jeff@vanagonparts.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Not that I am in imminent need of a water pump but this thing have a
tendency to deteriorate very quick when they wear out. How does one
identify a German Lazo pump? Water pumps rarely have marking on them.



- Vince

http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
1989 Vanagon GL Camper
1993 Mazda Miata
1996 Land Rover Discovery
2005 Mini Cooper S




-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of Jeff at Vanagonparts
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 4:52 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Would you replace your water pump if:


I knew someone would dispute this, so...

Here's the FACTS:

 - All numbers and facts are indeed for VANAGON water pumps.

 - The Laso pump is readily available (and quite common) for the
Vanagon. Several of the large on-line vendors sell this exact pump.

 - My distributor has sold 278 Laso water pumps for the Vanagon this
year.

 - 34 Laso Vanagon pumps have been returned for warranty.

 - During the same time frame, they have sold 784 Graf Vanagon water
pumps.

 - 22 Graf water pumps have been returned for warranty.

They are only having this problem with the Vanagon pumps from Laso.
It's gotten so bad that Laso doesn't even want the old pumps back
anymore (my vendor throws them in the dumpster).

Over the past 3 months, we've experienced a 25% failure rate on the Laso
pumps.  One van is currently on it's third pump in 6 weeks.  It now has
a Graf.

So... back to my original comment: Do not use the German Laso water pump
in your Vanagon.

Cheers,

Jeff
www.vanagonparts.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
Of The Bus Depot
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 4:08 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Would you replace your water pump if:


> FYI:  The German Laso water pumps have an extremely high failure rate
> (~12%).  Use the Italian made Graf pumps instead.
>
> BTW: Before anyone starts a flame war on the statement above, it comes

> directly from my parts supplier (they are one of the largest importers

> of auto parts in the USA).


I have not seen any Laso water pumps for Vanagons in years. If they're
distributed in the U.S. anymore, it's not by anyone I deal with.

But to be honest, when the Laso's were available some years back, I
can't recall taking even one back. Of course my experience was strictly
with Vanagon water pumps. If Laso had a quality problem with pumps for
some other car, I wouldn't have known.

While I can understand why one's initial impulse might be to strongly
value the impressions of the salesman at a huge auto parts importer,
with all due respect I submit that there are reasons to take this with a
grain of salt. Consider that this "largest importer of auto parts in the
USA" is basically a wholesale "jack of all trades." He sells water pumps
for every import application, and perhaps even domestic as well.  For
every one Vanagon water pump he sells, he probably sells 500 Jetta water
pumps, 1000 other VW ones, and 3000 more non-VW ones.  Now, lets say
that a manufacturer has a bad batch of a particular water pump that fits
a wide range of Toyotas, or maybe even Jettas. That salesperson will,
with the best of intentions, relate to his customers that a huge
percentage of that manufacturer's water pumps fail. In total, he's right
- even if not a single Vanagon pump they ever made failed.  Conversely,
let's say that every single Vanagon pump that manufacturer makes fails.
Since this still represents maybe 1/25 of 1% of that importer's total
water pump sales, it's very likely that this 100% failure rate on this
particular application would fly right past the wholesale salesperson's
radar.

But as I said, I am largely speaking theoretically here, as Laso is not
a common brand of Vanagon water pump anymore anyway, to my knowledge.

- Ron Salmon
  The Bus Depot, Inc.
  www.busdepot.com
  (215)  234-VWVW

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